# Benghazigate: How do Liberals see it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843 "2012-10-25T17:17:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/21 "2012-10-25T21:01:56Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > I think about a lot of these things like an avalanche of ping pong balls (Captain Kangaroo for the older members of the board). On some of those ping pong balls are clues but on the vast majority there is non-sense or wrong information. It is easy after the fact to find the ping pong balls that tell the story. It is another issue to identify the relevent clues when the balls are falling. > > I felt that the Bush administration took some unfair criticism for 9/11 because of this and think that the same thing is happening with the Obama adminstration on this one. NASA with the space shuttle disasters are other examples of this. > > If someone sent an e-mail saying it was terrorism immediately it is irrelevent without knowing how many e-mails with conflicting info were sent. I like the ping pong ball analogy. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/22 "2012-10-25T21:03:16Z")
The story/perception wass the attack was in response to the video. It matters because it’s not some American nutjob who “caused/triggered” the attack, but just the US presence in Libya alone was enough. To me, that’s very significant. There weren’t any cables coming from the consulate about a protest or group of people outside (that we know of). There would have been. There’s a guy who sits in an information room and when something happens - let’s the Embassy/Response Team/State Dept know. There is no doubt he would have cabled that a growing crowd of protesters was gathered outside the consulate, at least to have the response team stationed two miles away on alert. So I fail to see where any miscommunication could have happened from Benghazi. I suppose that doesn’t mean the attack wasn’t based on the video, just that there was not a protest beforehand. Anyways, maybe the WH just assumed that because there were protests in other countries over the video on the same day, this attack was based on the same reason’s people were protesting. Or maybe we don’t know all the facts. But I still haven’t seen any conflicting evidence to suggest it wasn’t just a straight up attack. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/23 "2012-10-25T21:36:43Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Sorry. They knew about it and deliberately lied to the American public. Benghazigate is probably a more accurate term than intended. This has the potential to be Obama’s Watergate. Watergate? Really? From the link, this is three emails out of a potential avalanche of data that day. One of the emails cites posts on Facebook and Twitter as their source that Ansar al-Sharia was involved. To say that officials “deliberately lied” is a stretch, and it’s hardly the equivalent of taped White House conversations showing the President planning to use the CIA to impede an FBI investigation and planning blackmail payments to cover up a crime. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/24 "2012-10-25T21:49:12Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > This has the potential to be Obama’s Watergate. Really? What crime was he committing? What crime was he covering up? This won’t even be Obama’s 9/11. Where were you on that? Did you demand the impeachment of George Bush? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/25 "2012-10-25T21:58:26Z")
Some crazy/angry/terroristy people attacked us on the same day 19 other cities had riots over that stupid film. People died, it was tragic, but hardly a coverup or some severe failing. They’ll do better next time ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/26 "2012-10-25T22:24:20Z")
[According to Media Matters,](http://mediamatters.org/research/2010/06/07/right-wing-mad-libs-insert-event-is-obamas-inse/165833) Obama has had at least eight “Katrinas”, three “Waterloos”, two “Watergates”, an Iranian hostage crisis, a 9/11, an Iraq, an Enron, and a “My Pet Goat moment”. And that’s just from the first year and a half of his presidency. It’s a miracle he’s still in office. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/27 "2012-10-25T22:38:00Z")
Plain and simple: someone directly in charge of security in Libya _fucked-up_. Film or no film, it’s pretty clear that Libya is hardly a consolidated democracy much less a united country. Add to the fact that the Ambassador went to Benghazi in rather reckless though obviously good-willed fashion – being as it is, not just the flashpoint/excuse for the OTAN intervention, but a known enclave of well-armed (mostly by the West!) ‘rebels’ – and you have…well, what you had. Mind you, England’s consulate had already been attacked there & they retired all/most of their personnel. So yeah, mistakes were made…but I don’t think it’s an ‘evil cover-up’ or anything of the sort. Just the nature of the beast: the US’s attempt to police the world. Can’t be done. Not Obama, not Romney, not Reagan’s ghost. As a political point it’s worthless – as part of a larger discussion, valid. But no one went (dares?) there. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/28 "2012-10-25T22:49:50Z")
Not a liberal so grain of salt. My take is there is no -gate. At most what we have is a short term attempt at CYA by the administration and some confusion from the top guys (Biden, press secretary, etc) that made them look a bit incompetent. Compared to some of the clusterfucks under Bush though this is pretty small beer. But…it’s what the 'Pubs have as material to attempt to attack Obama over foreign policy, which frankly is Obama’s strongest suit IMHO, and if they can get traction just before the election then it will be a positive for Romney. If not, nothing lost. With the compressed timeframe to election it’s worth the gamble I guess. Don’t think it’s going to work, but you never know. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/29 "2012-10-25T22:58:18Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Benghazigate: How do Liberals see it?? As an unseemly politicization of the deaths of four Americans. Come on folks, we are better than this. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/30 "2012-10-25T23:01:36Z")
No we aren’t and we never were. Come on. We politicize deaths all the time. Let’s get real here. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/31 "2012-10-26T00:06:32Z")
The transitional period of an oil-rich Muslim country in a strategic location is PRIME territory for US intelligence to do whatever it is that it does to encourage friendly regimes, and I’d imagine the embassy was more about that sort of thing than spreading goodwill and stamping passports. Likewise, I’d imagine there is a reluctance to immediately blurt out all kinds of details before they figured out how to handle any intelligence related loose ends and make sure any assets in the area were protected. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/32 "2012-10-26T00:49:43Z")
My take on this is that it’s the same reaction we saw after Pearl Harbor and 9/11 (and dozens of other examples). A tragedy happened and people were killed. No reasonable effort is going to always prevent tragedies like this from happening. But after the fact, it’s always possible to go back and see something that might have been done differently. Add politics to this and you get “This only happened because those guys were in office. If we had been in office, we would have done things differently.” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/33 "2012-10-26T00:51:45Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > As an unseemly politicization of the deaths of four Americans. Yes. And… > [@jasg](#): > > Come on folks, we are better than this. No. We aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/34 "2012-10-26T12:42:57Z")
How do I see it? ``` Number of Americans killed in Libya in 2012: regrettably, 4. Number of Americans killed in Iraq in 2012: [1 (non-hostile)](http://icasualties.org/iraq/fatalities.aspx). Number of American soldiers killed in Iran in 2012: 0 Number of American soldiers killed in Syria in 2012: 0 Number of Americans killed in terrorist attacks in NYC in 2012: 0 ``` ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/35 "2012-10-26T13:49:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > This has the potential to be Obama’s Watergate. Or to fizzle as sputteringly as Ayersgate, Wrightgate, Beersummitgate, Birthergate… the list goes on and on. Keep pounding. I’m confident you’ll coax that square peg through the round hole eventually. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/36 "2012-10-26T16:47:39Z")
I just happened upon Joe Biden’s remarks to the father of one of the ex-Seals killed in Benghazi-quite astounding. I guess it was poor Joe’s attempt to provide some levity. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/37 "2012-10-26T16:54:54Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I just happened upon Joe Biden’s remarks to the father of one of the ex-Seals killed in Benghazi-quite astounding. > I guess it was poor Joe’s attempt to provide some levity. You’re getting your “news” from Glen Beck again, aren’t you? I don’t believe a word of that guy’s story. None of it. It’s outrageous. [Story here](http://politics.kfyi.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=104707&article=10526816) Who would do that? Even if you think Joe Biden is a gaffe factory, can you believe he’d go up to the father of one of the Seals killed in Benghazi and ask him “in a boisterous voice” if his son always had balls as big as cue balls? Seriously? A man who was in the Senate for 30 years, the vice-president for 4 now? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/38 "2012-10-26T17:11:52Z")
I’m in the “we see this as another stupid-ass wingnut attempt to generate a scandal where none exists” camp.\* If it weren’t for that, we wouldn’t be thinking of it at all. > [@XT](#): > > No we aren’t and we never were. Truer words were never spoken. \*I’m certainly not saying that libruls have never done the same thing. But it seems that the past four years have been filled with dozens, perhaps hundreds, of attempts to gin up Obama administration ‘scandals’ that quickly proved to be nothingburgers. Shirley Sherrod! Solyndra! Birth certificate! Apology tour! Auto bailout was crony capitalism! Conspiracy to alter unemployment numbers! Obama gutted welfare work requirements! And on and on. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/39 "2012-10-26T17:22:28Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Sorry. They knew about it and deliberately lied to the American public. Benghazigate is probably a more accurate term than intended. This has the potential to be Obama’s Watergate. > [http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-told-militant-claim-two-hours-libya-010758099.html](http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-told-militant-claim-two-hours-libya-010758099.html) You have no idea what you’re talking about. You want Obama to be wrong and evil, and you assume that he must be, but that assumption is not sound. The Republican base is motivated by fake issues and misinformation. The reason they’re so incensed at Obama’s every move is that people they get their news from are lying and presenting common things as outrageous. You’re being manipulated. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843/40 "2012-10-26T17:51:25Z")
How do liberals see it? Crooks and Liars point at who are so crooked that they need servants to help them screw their pants on every morning. \* > **[Fox Baselessly Suggests Obama ‘Traded’ American Lives To Appease Libya](https://crooksandliars.com/news-hound-ellen/fox-baselessly-suggests-obama-tra)** > > Fox’s Peter Johnson, Jr. – a legal analyst who also happens to be Roger Ailes’ personal attorney – visited Fox & Friends this morning to “ask” if President Obama deliberately allowed Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans to > [@](#): > > As the Fox Newsies beat their chests with showy patriotic concern for the deaths of the Americans killed in Libya, they seemed not to care a fig that Ambassador Stevens’ father has spoken out against the politicization of the tragedy and has said that it has no place in the presidential campaign. Apparently, that concern sits on the same dusty Fox News shelf as its concern for the thousands of “expendable” Americans in Iraq who died as part of George W. Bush’s Middle East policy. That is the way I see it too, this accusation is so low that, in a fair universe, it should convince independents and reasonable Republicans to not encourage that kind of trash by not electing the proponents and the beneficiaries of those lies into office. - Tip to the hat to Hunter S. Thompson. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/benghazigate-how-do-liberals-see-it/638843.md?page=3)