# Bernie and Jane Sanders under investigation for bank fraud **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 24, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781 "2017-06-24T19:01:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/81 "2017-06-30T15:36:03Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Digging further into the cites](https://vtdigger.org/2015/09/13/jane-sanders-overstated-donation-amounts-in-loan-application-for-burlington-college/), I’m finding this, which I believe accounts for those two donors: > > Again, this is not exactly smoking gun material: one donor who discussed making a donation then never committed, and another one who can’t really remember the discussion. For a total of $65,000 – far less than the amount at the heart of the investigation. You got the three guys saying either their amounts or terms were misrepresented. But you don’t know how many others there might be. The broader issue is that only a small percentage of the money she claimed to have in pledges ended up coming through. Combining this fact with several known instances of her fudging the pledges suggests that the reason for this may have been a broader pattern of this type of fudging. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/82 "2017-06-30T19:25:04Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I understand that it’s important to you to believe that some Democrats are “crowing in glee” and “jumping up and down in glee” (at the same time?) about the Sanders allegations. But is this just one more of your delusions? Or do you have some actual evidence that this is occurring? > [@foolsguinea](#): > > _The original post of the thread you are posting in is my evidence._ Really? Here it is–in its entirety: > [@dalej42](#): > > [Lengthy Politco story](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/22/bernie-sanders-jane-sanders-lawyer-bank-fraud-investigation-burlington-college-215297) > > This could prove to be quite interesting and hopefully put an end to the perception that Bernie Sanders is the savior of the Democratic Party. In fact, if there’s even a small fire with all this smoke, Bernie could choose not to stand for reelection in 2018. > > I think this story is particularly relevant because Bernie Sanders did focus on the high cost of education in his failed 2016 run. Yet, it seems the actions of his wife are the poster child of why college education costs so much in the United States these days. What in this post do you classify as either (to use your exact words) “crowing in glee” or “jumping up and down in glee”…? Please be specific. A reply along the lines of ‘the whole thing’ will regarded by intelligent readers as your admission that you have nothing. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > ``` > You just declared the majority of American citizens to be Putin's poodles. > > ``` Wrong again, fg. Though you may be able to find polls in which “the majority” state that they find politicians to be untrustworthy, you will find no reputable poll in which “the majority” state that they regard Hillary Clinton as (again, to use your exact words) “a crook.” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/83 "2017-06-30T20:55:59Z")
Sherrerd, you’ve been following along in the elections forum for a while and should know perfectly well dalej42 very much has a hate on for Sanders and most certainly crows with glee at every misstep. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/84 "2017-06-30T21:47:51Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Sherrerd, you’ve been following along in the elections forum for a while and should know perfectly well dalej42 very much has a hate on for Sanders and most certainly crows with glee at every misstep. This seems very wrong-headed to me. If someone claims “X is crowing with glee,” then that someone, when challenged about the ugly claim, is obligated to back up the claim with actual evidence–not with mind-reading. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/85 "2017-07-01T07:01:45Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > This seems very wrong-headed to me. If someone claims “X is crowing with glee,” then that someone, when challenged about the ugly claim, is obligated to back up the claim with actual evidence–not with mind-reading. Alternatively, the OP could just tell us how much glee he’s feeling. The answer may surprise you. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/86 "2017-07-01T14:49:21Z")
Am I ecstatic that there are allegations against Bernie and Jane? Yes. I believe that Bernie Sanders cost Hillary Clinton the 2016 election. Let’s flash back to a year ago today. Shitbag Sanders was still keeping his secret service protection one month after he got crushed in the California and DC primaries. He was hemming and hawing like Hamlet with a Messiah complex as to endorsing Hillary. His cult members were harassing super delegates in a futile attempt to convince them to flip to Sanders even after Sanders was utterly crushed in the Democratic primary race. Sanders’ post-primary idiocy really hurt, it allowed the vile, despicable Jill Stein to have some legitimacy as well as continuing the stupidity of Bernie or Bust. So, yes, I’d love to see Jane Sanders shackled and jailed and hopefully there’s enough of an ethical cloud over Bernie that he chooses not to run for the Senate again in 2018. In fact, I’d love to waggle my finger right under that arrogant fuck’s nose. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/87 "2017-07-01T15:08:51Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Alternatively, the OP could just tell us how much glee he’s feeling. The answer may surprise you. Surprised yet, Sherrerd ? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/88 "2017-07-01T17:51:40Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Surprised yet, Sherrerd ? Somehow, you’ve failed to notice that the claims about “crowing with glee” and “jumping up and down in glee” were not supported by any evidence at the time they were made–the claims depended entirely on mind-reading. With this most recent post (made today), dalej42 has used the word “ecstatic,” but instead of actual crowing, we see a list of concrete, specific reasons for forming a negative opinion about Bernie Sanders. So, still no “crowing.” All this, of course, illustrates the incapacity of members of certain factions to advance persuasive, respectable arguments–an incapacity that, perforce, devolves into personal insults (a la ‘you are, in essence, a vindictive person who spends time jumping up and down in glee instead of doing anything worthwhile’). That inability to create an actually-convincing case for one’s position is often expressed, as in this thread, in bluster and hyperbolic smears. Is that surprising? You tell me. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/89 "2017-07-02T00:02:53Z")
You’re being silly. The OP was clearly quite happy with this turn of events and you just can’t admit you missed what everyone else caught. “This could prove to be quite interesting and hopefully put an end to the perception that Bernie Sanders is the savior of the Democratic Party” That’s some crowing with glee if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/90 "2017-07-02T00:06:24Z")
You’ve completely misinterpreted the entire intercommunication. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/91 "2017-07-02T00:24:43Z")
I think I’m a little better at interpreting intercommunications so maybe you should just trust me on this. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/92 "2017-07-02T01:05:00Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Take my own view on it: That if Bernie or his wife broke the law, they should pay the price. Like anyone else. This attitude displays an open mindedness that strays from blind partisanship, imo, and therefore shows that Democrats aren’t merely blind partisans. That makes Democrats look good. YMMV. This. But only to other Democrats of course… ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/93 "2017-07-02T02:37:29Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Am I ecstatic that there are allegations against Bernie and Jane? Yes. I believe that Bernie Sanders cost Hillary Clinton the 2016 election. Let’s flash back to a year ago today. Shitbag Sanders was still keeping his secret service protection one month after he got crushed in the California and DC primaries. He was hemming and hawing like Hamlet with a Messiah complex as to endorsing Hillary. His cult members were harassing super delegates in a futile attempt to convince them to flip to Sanders even after Sanders was utterly crushed in the Democratic primary race. Sanders’ post-primary idiocy really hurt, it allowed the vile, despicable Jill Stein to have some legitimacy as well as continuing the stupidity of Bernie or Bust. > > So, yes, I’d love to see Jane Sanders shackled and jailed and hopefully there’s enough of an ethical cloud over Bernie that he chooses not to run for the Senate again in 2018. In fact, I’d love to waggle my finger right under that arrogant fuck’s nose. Cause lord knows the Dems didn’t harass delegates in a futile turn to overthrow the election. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/94 "2017-07-02T20:18:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I think I’m a little better at interpreting intercommunications so maybe you should just trust me on this. Haha! But: no. You failed to see a difference between this: > [@](#): > > This could prove to be quite interesting and hopefully put an end to the perception that X is the savior of the Democratic Party. In fact, if there’s even a small fire with all this smoke, X could choose not to stand for reelection in 2018. > I think this story is particularly relevant because X did focus on the high cost of education in his failed 2016 run. Yet, it seems the actions of his wife are the poster child of why college education costs so much in the United States these days. …and this: > [@](#): > > That moron X has now been shown up as a massive turd and he and his moron wife will be jailbirds within months, and it could not be better news! I have been waiting for this forever and it’s about time the world saw this idiot as the colossal dipstick he is! Now this scourge on American politics will benefit us all by disappearing into the landfill of history–congratulations to us all! The second one can fairly be classified as “crowing with glee” and/or “jumping up and down in glee.” The first one cannot–it’s a specific description of recent events as they concern a scorned politician. Your failure to understand the difference between “glee” and “presenting facts about a scorned politician” has apparently led you to this silly position: that my observation that the opening post doesn’t constitute “glee” is equivalent to a claim that the opening poster admires Sanders. It isn’t. It’s perfectly possible to present information about a detested politician, while maintaining a respectably-adult demeanor. That’s what most posters in this thread have done. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/95 "2017-07-02T22:15:42Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > This is amazing news for Trump and for the present GOP leadership. It demonstrates convincingly to swing voters and reformers that voting for reformers and outsiders is useless. If only because deep pockets will always dig up something against those people, and if they can’t make it stick in court, they’ll control the perception of it via the media. You all should be very proud. > [@](#): > > Mitch McConnell should be very happy, and Trump should be ecstatic, because Donald Trump, never indicted, is now the uncontested hero of the American people, the one hope we all have. The hope 20odd percent of the voters have. You 20odd per cent don’t really want the other 80odd to have any hope at all, and why would you? The electoral college was a popular mandate to you: it’s _your_ country now. Trump and his people have done far worse than Jane Sanders ever had the chance to. But history is written by the victors, and right now they think they have the right to write that history and pillory Bernie by mere association. However it turns out, those of us who backed the Sanders groundswell will not forget. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/96 "2017-07-03T01:29:44Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Haha! But: no. You failed to see a difference between this: > > …and this: > > The second one can fairly be classified as “crowing with glee” and/or “jumping up and down in glee.” The first one cannot–it’s a specific description of recent events as they concern a scorned politician. > > Your failure to understand the difference between “glee” and “presenting facts about a scorned politician” has apparently led you to this silly position: that my observation that the opening post doesn’t constitute “glee” is equivalent to a claim that the opening poster admires Sanders. It isn’t. > > It’s perfectly possible to present information about a detested politician, while maintaining a respectably-adult demeanor. That’s what most posters in this thread have done. Good for you. The internet would be so boring if everyone just admitted when they were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/97 "2017-07-03T08:45:26Z")
If Hillary had only backed down gracefully, claiming simply that Trump would beat her if she run, rather than sensibly saying ‘_I am a vain idiot_’, President Sanders would now be in the sweetheart period of his first term with very possibly — inspired by his example as much as she repelled, a faint Dem majority in both houses. And Fox would implode. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/98 "2017-07-03T19:29:35Z")
Where would the human species be without its capacity for self-delusion? Case in point (beyond Carnal and Ivan): Bernie himself. He’s been on television stating that Jane left Burlington College in wonderful condition: > [@](#): > > … Sanders said in an interview with CNN’s Jake Tapper on “State of the Union.” "And in fact, let’s be clear. Five years, five years after my wife left Burlington College — and **she left it in better shape than it had even been in** — [http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/02/politics/bernie-sanders-jane-sanders-burlington-college/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/02/politics/bernie-sanders-jane-sanders-burlington-college/index.html) But if that’s the case, why did she leave under the circumstances described here…? > [@](#): > > …[Jane] Sanders’ **resignation is negotiated with lawyers.** Publicly she cites differences with the trustees. Publicly they say very little, but sources close to situation say doubts emerged about her fundraising plans. > **[How much trouble is Jane Sanders actually in? | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/politics/jane-sanders-burlington-college/index.html)** > > Jane Sanders, the wife of the Vermont senator and 2016 presidential candidate, has been in the news of late – and not for good reasons. In late April, VTDigger, a non-profit reporting site in Vermont, broke the news that the FBI was potentially... Seems a bit odd. Points to Bernie for being a loyal spouse, I guess, but he does appear to be re-writing the actual history. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/99 "2017-07-03T19:42:29Z")
So are you ecstatic, not gleeful because that’s totally different, that Sanders’ wife’s legal issues will knock him out of politics and thereby stop his crusade to be the Democrats’ messiah? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/100 "2017-07-03T19:46:25Z")
Well, that’s it then, they will never be able to recruit any candidate to run against Il Douche’s wildly popular agenda. Damn! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781.md?page=6)