# Bernie and Jane Sanders under investigation for bank fraud **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 24, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781 "2017-06-24T19:01:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2017, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/121 "2017-07-05T12:36:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Do you guys ever find yourself in a discussion like this and think, “Holy fuck, what am I even doing?” and back away from the keyboard? It’s not a discussion. I corrected an error. There is nothing more to discuss. At least there wasn’t until you decided there was. 🙂 I’ll let you have the last word, if you are so inclined. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/122 "2017-07-07T12:34:05Z")
Here’s something to discuss - the ethics allegations against Jane Sanders were made by Republicans repeating gossip and hearsay. > **[Source of allegation vs. Bernie Sanders' wife admits info was hearsay](https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/source-of-allegation-vs-bernie-sanders-wife-admits-info-was-hearsay)** > > MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) -- A Republican lawyer who reported independent U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders and his wife to federal officials was passing on information he heard from a GOP lawmaker who said he didn't have direct knowledge of the allegations.The... > [@article linked above](#): > > A Republican lawyer who reported independent U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders and his wife to federal officials was passing on information he heard from a GOP lawmaker who said he didn’t have direct knowledge of the allegations. > > The lawyer, Brady Toensing, sent letters to the U.S. attorney for Vermont and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. alleging that Sen. Sanders pressured a bank to approve a loan to a now-closed college run by Sanders’ wife. > > The source of that information was Republican State Rep. Don Turner, the minority leader of the Vermont House. > > Turner told WCAX-TV that friends at the bank described pressure from Sanders’ office, but he says those friends didn’t have direct knowledge of the negotiations. Turner says he told Toensing about it in May 2016, adding that he would not have brought it to the attention of federal investigators. > > Toensing, an attorney who served as Donald Trump’s Vermont representative during last year’s presidential campaign, said Monday he was standing by the allegation. Should have realized that if the Trump campaign was the source of the allegations, it was going to be bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/123 "2017-07-07T13:11:58Z")
Fake news! Sad! ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/124 "2017-07-07T13:12:11Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Here’s something to discuss - the ethics allegations against Jane Sanders were made by Republicans repeating gossip and hearsay. > > [http://wjla.com/news/nation-world/source-of-allegation-vs-bernie-sanders-wife-admits-info-was-hearsay](http://wjla.com/news/nation-world/source-of-allegation-vs-bernie-sanders-wife-admits-info-was-hearsay) You’ve confused Jane and Bernie Sanders. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/125 "2017-07-07T16:43:38Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Should have realized that if the Trump campaign was the source of the allegations, it was going to be bullshit. I did :). If the bank were pressing for fraud charges, I would understand. If the donors whose pledges were represented differently from what they remembered were pressing for fraud charges, I’d understand. But the only people who appear to be pursuing this are Republican operatives with a vested interest in discrediting Sanders. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/126 "2017-07-07T16:49:18Z")
Assuming that you get to define the FBI and Justice Department as “_Republican operatives with a vested interest in discrediting Sanders_”, that’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/127 "2017-07-07T20:07:45Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Assuming that you get to define the FBI and Justice Department as “_Republican operatives with a vested interest in discrediting Sanders_”, that’s true. Well, yeah, it worked in the election for the FBI to discredit Hillary. And who runs the Justice Department now? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/128 "2017-07-08T02:18:45Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Assuming that you get to define the FBI and Justice Department as “_Republican operatives with a vested interest in discrediting Sanders_”, that’s true. Ahem. The only people pushing for government agencies to pursue it, yadda yadda. There’s no evidence that any party actually affected by Sanders’s actions has asked the FBI–or anyone–to investigate allegations of fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/129 "2017-07-08T05:20:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You’ve confused Jane and Bernie Sanders. No, not quite. I was just prevented from quoting the entire article, which points out that Toensing, the guy who worked for the Trump campaign is the one who made the allegations about Sanders’ office, apparently just on the basis of hearsay. Toensing is also the source of the allegation that Jane Sanders attained the load through fraudulent claims. Sanders claims that the whole investigation is a political witch hunt from the Trump camp against him. > [@from the article link posted above](#): > > In early 2016, Toensing sent a more extensive letter to federal authorities alleging that in 2010, when Jane O’Meara Sanders was president of Burlington College, she made fraudulent claims while seeking $10 million in financing for a real estate deal. > > The college, which closed last year, later sold the property. Officials cited debt from the land deal as a major reason. > > Federal law enforcement officials have refused to confirm or deny the existence of any investigation, let alone what led them to open one. But Bernie Sanders confirmed an investigation was underway after it was revealed last month that Jane Sanders had retained attorneys. No charges have been filed. > > During a Sunday appearance on CNN’s State of the Union, the Vermont senator and 2016 Democratic presidential candidate cited Turner’s comments as proof that the allegations against his wife were politically motivated. > > “Sadly we are in a moment where parties not only attack public officials, they have to go after wives and children,” Sanders said. “You know, this is pathetic and that’s the way politics is in America today.” Knowing that Toensing’s basing his claims about Sanders on gossip that no one will back up makes it likely that his claims about Jane Sanders are bullshit, too. That’s Trump fans, for you. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/130 "2017-07-08T05:31:42Z")
“Attained the loa **n** …” I meant to say. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/131 "2017-07-10T13:33:23Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Ahem. The only people pushing for government agencies to pursue it, yadda yadda. There’s no evidence that any party actually affected by Sanders’s actions has asked the FBI–or anyone–to investigate allegations of fraud. Even allowing the revision of “pursuing this” to “pushing for government agencies to pursue it”, there’s nothing here. Firstly, it’s unknown who is or isn’t “pushing for government agencies to pursue it”. I don’t know that this type of info is public knowledge. It’s known that the investigation was triggered by a Republican, but it’s not at all clear what the various affected parties have done having become aware of it. But beyond that, affected parties generally focus on civil actions, not criminal. To my knowledge, the FBI and DOJ don’t generally act based on being pushed by affected parties (though that may be how the information initially comes to their attention in a given instance). And even further beyond that, the bottom line is that whoever is or isn’t pushing for the FBI to investigate it, they are clearly investigating it. So unless you buy into the notion that the FBI and DOJ are simply extensions of whoever pushes them to investigate things, it’s not logical to dismiss their investigation based on speculation about who is or isn’t pushing them to investigate. So basically, what you’ve got is total speculation about something that doesn’t appear to be at all meaningful even if true. (More below.) > [@Merneith](#): > > No, not quite. I was just prevented from quoting the entire article, which points out that Toensing, the guy who worked for the Trump campaign is the one who made the allegations about Sanders’ office, apparently just on the basis of hearsay. Toensing is also the source of the allegation that Jane Sanders attained the load through fraudulent claims. > > Sanders claims that the whole investigation is a political witch hunt from the Trump camp against him. > > Knowing that Toensing’s basing his claims about Sanders on gossip that no one will back up makes it likely that his claims about Jane Sanders are bullshit, too. That’s Trump fans, for you. This is a lot of fancy footwork, but doesn’t come close to backing up your initial statement. Your statement was: “_the ethics allegations against Jane Sanders were made by Republicans repeating gossip and hearsay_”. This was a factually incorrect statement, apparently based on your having confused the allegations against Jane vs Bernie Sanders. IMHO, the lesson of all the above is that there’s a lot less room between the mentality of Trump supporters and that of supporters of other politicians than one might suppose at first glance. It’s all the same game, just with different names. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781/132 "2017-07-10T17:50:12Z")
Very lengthy article just posted by the Washington Post. > **[Federal prosecutors step up probe of land deal pushed by wife of Bernie Sanders](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/federal-prosecutors-step-up-probe-of-land-deal-pushed-by-wife-of-bernie-sanders/2017/07/10/e3fc3e72-625a-11e7-8adc-fea80e32bf47_story.html?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.81cded968f2e)** > > Jane Sanders championed the costly relocation of Burlington College. Its closure in financial distress could spawn a criminal case that damages her husband politically.  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-and-jane-sanders-under-investigation-for-bank-fraud/789781.md?page=6)