# Bernie DESTROYS the opposition in Nevada **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 23, 2020, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375 "2020-02-23T01:30:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/41 "2020-02-23T02:57:36Z")
> [@Socsback](#): > > I 100% believe that the Russians want Bernie Sanders to win the Democratic nomination, yes. You’re getting it all wrong, they want the discord to win, the division, the chaos. They’ll support one against the other, then switch then support again. > [@](#): > > ``` > In contemporary Russia, unlike the old USSR or present-day North Korea, the stage is constantly changing: the country is a dictatorship in the morning, a democracy at lunch, an oligarchy by suppertime, while, backstage, oil companies are expropriated, journalists killed, billions siphoned away. Surkov is at the centre of the show, sponsoring nationalist skinheads one moment, backing human rights groups the next. It's a strategy of power based on keeping any opposition there may be constantly confused, a ceaseless shape-shifting that is unstoppable because it's indefinable. > — Peter Pomerantsev, in "Putin's Rasputin", London Review of Books issue of 20 October 2011[8] > > ``` [Vladislav Surkov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov#Influence_outside_Russia) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/42 "2020-02-23T02:58:16Z")
> [@Socsback](#): > > Yeah… thanks to 25% of Bernie supporters sabotaging the Democratic party, and helping Donald Trump. That is literally not true. [10% of Sanders’ supporters voted for Trump](https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds) and there is good reason to believe many of them were “never Clinton” people anyway. Sanders was able to draw off some fringe voters from Trump that Clinton could not. For comparison 25% of Clinton supporters voted for McCain in 2008 (see link above). In 2016, after Sanders lost, Sanders worked diligently for Clinton to get her elected. Recently, [Clinton said she was unsure if she could support Sanders](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/21/us/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders.html) if he was the nominee. Of the two which one would you say is supporting the party? ---
**Author:** ![Socsback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Socsback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Socsback)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/43 "2020-02-23T02:59:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > There are a few theories as to why Russians would help Sanders. > > 1. They think he’s the weakest candidate and want Trump to win, so they’re helping Sanders now to prep the field for Trump. > 2. They think Sanders is a strong candidate and know that helping him will be discovered, weakening him. > 3. They want to fuck shit up in our country, and know that helping him will decrease trust in politicians and the media, because some segment of Sanders supporters will refuse to believe that Russia’s helping him. > 4. They want to fuck shit up in our country, and think that helping to move people who want major change to US institutions into the halls of power will do that, since that worked so well with Trump; Sanders wants to change US institutions, so supporting him will further their aims. > 5. They want to fuck shit up in our country, and so they’re supporting candidates that a lot of people dislike, so that everyone keeps yelling at each other. > > If you’re gonna support one of these theories above another, or if you have a different theory, can you back it up with evidence? This is a fair challenge. I assume we can all agree that the Russians want Trump to win, right? They do that by… helping him win. Don’t you think the same theory would hold true for Bernie? If they’re helping him win, it’s likely because they want him to win… just like they’ve done for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/44 "2020-02-23T03:00:15Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Yes I really do. Why else would the Russians help Bernie? All the Pubbies have to do is hammer him until we’re sick of it with the hammer and sickle. Republican voters will visit their doctor with their socialist Medicare, cash their socialist Social Security check, drive on their socialists roads and cast their votes to save the country from the evils of socialism. The Russians are helping Bernie to dupe you into nominating someone like Sleepy Joe out of fear, thereby guaranteeing Trump’s victory. Or maybe not. Who gives a fuck what the Russians want? Why don’t we just focus on what _we_ want instead? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/45 "2020-02-23T03:00:25Z")
> [@Socsback](#): > > I 100% believe that the Russians want Bernie Sanders to win the Democratic nomination, yes. Why do you think that? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/46 "2020-02-23T03:00:47Z")
> [@Socsback](#): > > Yeah… thanks to 25% of Bernie supporters sabotaging the Democratic party, and helping Donald Trump. Here’s a clue to winning an election; You have to appeal to more than your base. Hillary didn’t, why? Because if the Republican candidate is saying out loud _‘I’ll stop factories being shut down and being sent to Mexico’_ That resonates more than anything Hillary could have countenance with. Nobody owes you a vote. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/47 "2020-02-23T03:02:29Z")
> [@Socsback](#): > > Yeah… thanks to 25% of Bernie supporters sabotaging the Democratic party, and helping Donald Trump. [I think you’re a little off here.](https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds) First, the 25% figure is the number of Clinton primary voters in 2008 who voted for McCain. The number of Sanders primary voters who voted for Trump in 2016 was 12%, less than half the figure you cited. Second, the research on these folks is pretty interesting. They were overwhelmingly people who didn’t like Obama, they weren’t Democrats, and they were far likelier than most Democrats to deny white privilege. IOW, the Sanders voters weren’t Democrats who sulked. They were people who weren’t ever planning on voting for a Democrat until Sanders came along. He could’ve pulled them into the Democratic tent in a way that Clinton couldn’t. The denial of white privilege is pretty troubling, if you see it as “ooh look it must be that Sanders is racist.” But if you see it as “Sanders is able to build bridges to some voters who’ve got some fucked up ideas and maybe pull them into the tent, and more importantly capture some votes that are otherwise going to Trump,” it’s a lot less troubling. We know those folks are out there. If we can get their votes without pandering to their racism, all the better. ---
**Author:** ![Socsback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Socsback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Socsback)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/48 "2020-02-23T03:03:51Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That is literally not true. > > [10% of Sanders’ supporters voted for Trump](https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds) and there is good reason to believe many of them were “never Clinton” people anyway. Sanders was able to draw off some fringe voters from Trump that Clinton could not. > > For comparison 25% of Clinton supporters voted for McCain in 2008 (see link above). > > In 2016, after Sanders lost, Sanders worked diligently for Clinton to get her elected. Recently, [Clinton said she was unsure if she could support Sanders](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/21/us/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders.html) if he was the nominee. > > Of the two which one would you say is supporting the party? I didn’t say that 25% of Bernie supporters voted for Trump. I said that 25% of them helped Trump win. People not voting for Hillary helped Trump win, as well. I’m not a Hillary apologist, by any means. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/49 "2020-02-23T03:03:56Z")
> [@Socsback](#): > > This is a fair challenge. > > I assume we can all agree that the Russians want Trump to win, right? They do that by… helping him win. Don’t you think the same theory would hold true for Bernie? If they’re helping him win, it’s likely because they want him to win… just like they’ve done for Trump. Yup…the Russians help Trump win by making you think the Russians are supporting Bernie so you vote for Trump. I guaran-fucking-tee you the Russians do not want Sanders to become president. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/50 "2020-02-23T03:05:20Z")
> [@Socsback](#): > > I didn’t say that 25% of Bernie supporters voted for Trump. I said that 25% of them helped Trump win. People not voting for Hillary helped Trump win, as well. > > I’m not a Hillary apologist, by any means. What? Where did you get that number? ---
**Author:** ![Socsback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Socsback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Socsback)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/51 "2020-02-23T03:05:35Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Here’s a clue to winning an election; > > You have to appeal to more than your base. Hillary didn’t, why? Because if the Republican candidate is saying out loud _‘I’ll stop factories being shut down and being sent to Mexico’_ That resonates more than anything Hillary could have countenance with. Nobody owes you a vote. You realize that it’s hard to find anybody outside of Bernie’s base that supports him, right? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/52 "2020-02-23T03:05:39Z")
> [@Socsback](#): > > This is a fair challenge. It is, isn’t it? The challenge was to back your beliefs up with evidence. So why do you respond with this? > [@](#): > > I assume we can all agree that the Russians want Trump to win, right? They do that by… helping him win. Don’t you think the same theory would hold true for Bernie? If they’re helping him win, it’s likely because they want him to win… just like they’ve done for Trump. That’s not evidence. That’s leading questions and rank speculation, and does very little more than restate one of the competing theories I offered. ---
**Author:** ![Socsback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Socsback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Socsback)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/53 "2020-02-23T03:07:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It is, isn’t it? The challenge was to back your beliefs up with evidence. So why do you respond with this? > That’s not evidence. That’s leading questions and rank speculation, and does very little more than restate one of the competing theories I offered. Of course it’s simply a theory. That’s what these forums are for, right? I recognized your question as rhetorical, since neither you or I have “evidence” of anything (unless you are working for the U.S. Intelligence Agency, and just playing me here). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/54 "2020-02-23T03:08:57Z")
> [@Socsback](#): > > You realize that it’s hard to find anybody outside of Bernie’s base that supports him, right? [That’s not true.](https://morningconsult.com/2020-democratic-primary/) Among Biden supporters, 33% hold Sanders as their second choice. Among Warren supporters, that’s 38%. Among Buttigieg and Bloomberg supporters, that’s 20%. Nobody else ranks as highly when you measure “second choice” as Sanders does. I can tell you’ve got some pretty strong feelings about Sanders. But it may be that they’re based on inaccurate information. Are you open to the idea that things aren’t what you think they are? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/55 "2020-02-23T03:10:17Z")
Bernie dominated among non-white Democrats today. He had more Hispanic/Latino supporters than all other candidates combined, and came in a relatively close 2nd to Biden among black Democrats. His support has been growing from contest to contest. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/56 "2020-02-23T03:10:47Z")
> [@Socsback](#): > > Of course it’s simply a theory. That’s what these forums are for, right? I recognized your question as rhetorical, since neither you or I have “evidence” of anything (unless you are working for the U.S. Intelligence Agency, and just playing me here). Well, no: the question wasn’t rhetorical. I’m a big proponent of admitting ignorance and living in uncertainty when I lack the facts to form an opinion. Folks here keep stating with great certainty why Russia is interfering on Sanders’s behalf. I don’t think that certainty is warranted, but I was giving folks a chance to prove me wrong. If you’re just shooting the shit and have nothing to back up your speculation, that’s cool, but it’s good to be clear that’s what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/57 "2020-02-23T03:12:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Bernie dominated among non-white Democrats today. He had the more Hispanic/Latino supporters than all other candidates combined, and came in a relatively close 2nd to Biden among black Democrats. His support has been growing from contest to contest. It sounds like this would indicate that Bernie Sanders is reaching out well beyond his base. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/58 "2020-02-23T03:14:36Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > It sounds like this would indicate that Bernie Sanders is reaching out well beyond his base. Exactly. South Carolina will be another great test for this. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/59 "2020-02-23T03:15:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Bernie dominated among non-white Democrats today. He had the more Hispanic/Latino supporters than all other candidates combined, and came in a relatively close 2nd to Biden among black Democrats. His support has been growing from contest to contest. I’m still amazed at black support for Biden. He has been a [disaster for them](https://harpers.org/archive/2019/03/joe-biden-record/) pretty much his whole career whereas [Sanders has been advocating for them his whole life](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-bernie-sanders-1963-chicago-arrest-20160219-story.html). But they still like Biden so I am missing something. Just curious why that is. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375/60 "2020-02-23T03:18:24Z")
Nice win but I still say the field is very weak. In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-destroys-the-opposition-in-nevada/848375.md?page=4)