# Bernie Sanders makes it official. How far will he go in 2020? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 19, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821 "2019-02-19T13:11:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/41 "2019-02-20T00:08:12Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > … Here is my view as a Bernie voter (and keep in mind over 90% of us who voted for him in the primary also voted for Hillary in the general election). … What did you think about Bernie’s declining to reveal his tax returns, despite the several times in 2016 he said he would do so? Follow-up: would you be fine with him declining to do so again? (If this is too personal, I apologize-- I am genuinely interested in the attitude Bernie fans have on this topic. If you don’t care to offer your own reactions, perhaps you have information you could share on what other Bernie fans have said about his choice not to release returns.) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/42 "2019-02-20T00:11:12Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > What did you think about Bernie’s declining to reveal his tax returns, despite the several times in 2016 he said he would do so? > > Follow-up: would you be fine with him declining to do so again? > > (If this is too personal, I apologize-- I am genuinely interested in the attitude Bernie fans have on this topic. If you don’t care to offer your own reactions, perhaps you have information you could share on what other Bernie fans have said about his choice not to release returns.) I hope Sanders releases his tax returns and would be moderately disappointed if he doesn’t but all things considered it is a minor issue in the whole scheme of things. ---
**Author:** ![Pithily\_Effusive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pithily_effusive/32/252_2.png) [@Pithily\_Effusive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pithily_Effusive)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/43 "2019-02-20T00:33:05Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > So much has been made of Sen. Bernie Sanders since 2016 and in the time since November 2016. By whom? If you were paying attention, Bernie Sanders developed a reputation over a fifteen year period by being the only one on any talk show who knew what he was talking about. He was the only articulate person who could tell the truth without one iota of bovine scatology. He didn’t rush to run for president out of a fit of vanity. He was drafted - by _us_. \*We \*talked him into running. If you’re saying November 2016 I find it difficult to believe you’re up to speed on the subject about which you’ve chosen to post. > [@asahi](#): > > I’m wondering what dopers think of his chances in 2020. What, if anything, will be different about his campaign this time around? Will he be as strong as he was in 2020? And I’m wondering what’s behind your use of this pejorative term “dopers”, as though you’re referring to a social class, or a nudge-nudge wink-wink “_We all know_” inference here. > [@asahi](#): > > It seems that a number of his ideas which were, shall we say, unorthodox a few years ago have since become more widely embraced. Major candidates are talking about minimum wage hikes, low-cost college, and universal healthcare, which were his signature issues. I see, you \*DID \*miss the boat. None of Bernie’s ideas were “unorthodox” at the time he was saying them aloud. We were amazed that someone had finally come out and SAID IT when we first heard him, and were just continuing to enjoy hearing him speak the truth for better than a decade. > [@asahi](#): > > Does Bernie still have that niche to work with and will he be regarded as the more authentic candidate? Or will he get pushed aside by other household names like Harris, Booker, and Biden (if Biden runs)? Again, you miss the point. Bernie isn’t working a niche. He’s solidly in the mainstream. I guess you don’t recall a number of PO-ed Bernie voters voted for Trump out of spite for the Democrats who did what they could to torpedo Bernie’s candidacy. > [@asahi](#): > > How will Sanders’ age affect perceptions about him? You could seriously ask that after watching what’s in the White House now? > [@asahi](#): > > Will he be able to bridge the gaps that he had with black voters in particular? If so, how? The brothers and sisters with whom I speak say Bernie was an unknown to them then. He isn’t now. It might behoove you to study a bit more before going off authoritatively about something of which you have but scant understanding. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/44 "2019-02-20T00:35:57Z")
“Dopers” is not a perjorative. This is the Straight Dope Message Board – we call each other Dopers. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/45 "2019-02-20T00:37:24Z")
> [@Pithily\_Effusive](#): > > It might behoove you to study a bit more before going off authoritatively about something of which you have but scant understanding. Huh? He asked questions to spark a discussion. Not sure what you’re responding to. Many threads are started by asking questions in order to see what other posters think. He didn’t make any “authoritative” statements. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/46 "2019-02-20T00:49:11Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > What did you think about Bernie’s declining to reveal his tax returns, despite the several times in 2016 he said he would do so? > > Follow-up: would you be fine with him declining to do so again? > > (If this is too personal, I apologize-- I am genuinely interested in the attitude Bernie fans have on this topic. If you don’t care to offer your own reactions, perhaps you have information you could share on what other Bernie fans have said about his choice not to release returns.) Its a problem, I’m guessing he took advantage of some tax loopholes that he criticizes other people for using. Has he released any other than his 2014 returns? No, I wouldn’t be fine with him doing it again, but I don’t know if that alone is enough to make me vote for someone else. There were some things Hillary Clinton and Obama did that I didn’t agree with, but I still voted for them. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/47 "2019-02-20T00:58:49Z")
> [@Pithily\_Effusive](#): > > By whom? If you were paying attention, Bernie Sanders developed a reputation over a fifteen year period by being the only one on any talk show who knew what he was talking about. He was the only articulate person who could tell the truth without one iota of bovine scatology. He didn’t rush to run for president out of a fit of vanity. He spoke in my town in late 2014, in (of all places) an auditorium at the hospital that held about 200 people, and it was SRO. 🆒 I remember coming home and stating on Facebook, “This guy cannot be our next president. He’s too honest.” I don’t remember any specifics, except he prefaced the Q&A by stating that he was not going to take any questions about abortion or gun control. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/48 "2019-02-20T01:34:08Z")
Its been less than a day and I’ve already seen several Dem blue mark twitter accounts tearing each other a new asshole over Bernie. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/49 "2019-02-20T01:52:16Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > [http://emersonpolling.com/2019/02/16/majority-of-americans-disagree-with-trumps-national-emergency-despite-a-plurality-agreeing-with-border-wall-extension/](http://emersonpolling.com/2019/02/16/majority-of-americans-disagree-with-trumps-national-emergency-despite-a-plurality-agreeing-with-border-wall-extension/) > > He’s at around 17%. I don’t see many people bailing on Bernie … IF one gives the option of “undecided” [his support goes down to 9%](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dCo2pRN0-jn12kX-fFnhdm-JkyZCvX9Y/view?ths=true). Undecided runs away with it at 48%! Biden is next closest at 12% with Harris close behind at 11%. That 9% is likely solid, but how much of that 48% will he get? I’m guessing not much. And FWIW this same result also justifies a conclusion that Biden’s early polling advantage [don’t mean much either](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/18/joe-biden-2020-polling-1173226). Brought up in the Klobuchar/Harris thread - but why don’t the charges of Sanders as [an abusive boss](https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2015/09/03/sen-bernie-sanders-m-not-bad-boss/71648456/) get the same attention as Klobuchar’s? They should. Managing people is a key part of the needed skillset. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/50 "2019-02-20T02:17:12Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > _Citation needed_. For what? That nobody bothered to attack him in 2016? Or that there was plenty of material available if someone did? The former is obvious; for the latter, I’ve forgotten all the goodies that popped up in blogland at the time, but IIRC, Bernie’s got a track record of traveling to hang out with _bona fide_ Communist leaders and stuff like that. I remember thinking that it would hardly take the right-wing noise machine to demonize Bernie; I could have done it with a few million, easily. > [@](#): > > Except Hillary Clinton cleared the field for herself on the basis of this reasoning in 2016. She cleared the field on the basis of having raised a shit-ton of money, and having the party establishment behind her as well. She’s also the only Dem runnerup in recent memory who’s been the nominee the next cycle. John Edwards was the runnerup in 2004. He did worse in 2008, even before his affair came to light. Bill Bradley was the runnerup in 2000; he didn’t even try in 2004. Paul Tsongas and Jerry Brown were Bill Clinton’s main rivals for the nomination in 1992; where were they in 2000? Jesse Jackson was the runnerup in 1988; where was he in 1992? Gary Hart was the runnerup in 1984; he managed to self-destruct in 1987, and was a nonfactor in 1988. Ted Kennedy was the runnerup in 1980; didn’t bother in 1984. IOW, there’s no pattern here of there being an ‘it’s his turn’ deal, the way there is on the GOP side. Just one putative instance that can easily be attributed to more obvious factors. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/51 "2019-02-20T02:19:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > For Larry David, a chance to work enough to buy that vacation home. For the rest of us, not much to offer. In 2016, he was the straight talking alternative to the inevitable Hillary. Now, his lane is occupied by sleeker and newer models. He’s running like we owe him something, as if 2016 was taken from him. Yes, the DNC was in Hillary’s pocket. But she also got more votes than Bernie nearly everywhere. Personally, I’d prefer that the Democratic nomination go to, you know, an actual Democrat. I think you’ve addressed Bernie’s challenge. In 2016, he was an underdog challenger fighting Hillary’s inevitability. He also positioned himself as being the guy who could take liberalism in a new direction, which Hillary was reluctant to do. But now there are non-white candidates who aren’t ‘inevitable’ and they espouse some of the same positions he has. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/52 "2019-02-20T02:37:42Z")
Well, I’m not counting out anybody who has the kind of passionate, vociferous supporters that Sanders has attracted, along with a fundraising list and machinery that is second to none. Also, when there are a dozen serious candidates, it’s hard to predict what will happen. But I think it’s gonna be an uphill battle. As others have said, he attracted two kinds of voters in 2016: progressives and never-Hillaries. There are other progressives in the race, Warren for sure, Harris and Booker positioning themselves that way, and of course everybody in the race isn’t Hillary. More to the point, perhaps, Sanders was the candidate of straight white guys in 2016. Overall he won 41-42% of the vote, but just 37% of women, 34% of gays and lesbians, 23% of African Americans. Obviously there are a ton of straight white guys among the Democratic electorate (and independents who will vote in open primary states). But there are many more voters who are NOT straight white guys. I don’t see that Sanders has done anything since '16 to broaden that support. And then there’s his age. He’d be 87 when his second term ended. I think that’s going to be tough for a lot of voters. I don’t know. Maybe the non-straight white guy vote is split so many different ways that Sanders’s core support and fundraising ability wins him both Iowa and New Hampshire. Maybe Warren drops out and Booker drops out and Harris says something dumb and Sanders winds up winning California and next thing you know he’s well out in front. It could happen. But I think it’s more likely that whatever happens in IA and NH he hits a buzzsaw in South Carolina and doesn’t recover. At what point he’d drop out, if any, is another question entirely… ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/53 "2019-02-20T02:40:14Z")
Bernie can still rouse people to action very quickly. In 4 hours, he had already gotten 42,000 people responding with donations. By the end of the day Tuesday, the day he announced his candidacy, he had 120,000 people responding with over $3.3M in donations. That’s good for fundraising, but it’s also good for getting a pulse on the people who want to see him elected. > [@](#): > > In just over the first four hours of his 2020 presidential campaign, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) had already raised money from 42,000 donors, a total that bested the number Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA) had hit in the first full day of her campaign. The campaign estimated that Sanders had raised $1.2 million in three-and-a-half hours on Tuesday. Later Tuesday, it was revealed that the campaign reportedly raised over $3.3 million from 120,000 donors in one day. The figure is another sign of the incredible money-raising prowess that Sanders brings to the race. [The Daily Beast](https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-bests-kamala-harris-first-day-donor-total-in-four-hours) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/54 "2019-02-20T03:23:01Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > But I think it’s gonna be an uphill battle. As others have said, he attracted two kinds of voters in 2016: progressives and never-Hillaries. There are other progressives in the race, Warren for sure, Harris and Booker positioning themselves that way, and of course everybody in the race isn’t Hillary. > . The figures I’ve heard are somewhere around 80-95% of Bernie voters voted for Hillary in the general election. Seeing how Sanders got 13 million votes, that means anywhere from 600k-2.6 million votes were lost for Clinton in 2016. > **[Eighty-five percent of Sanders supporters intend to vote for Clinton](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/12/sanders-supporters-clinton-vote-survey)** > > A survey by Pew Research Center shows Sanders supporters aren’t necessarily happy with their general election options, but most would choose Clinton But anyway, the ‘never-Hillary’ types exist. I’ve met them. But I think there’s 2 types of them. One would be the socially conservative-economically liberal type (aka reagan democrats). The others are hardcore progressives who feel anything other than Bernie wasn’t worth voting for. But evenso, both groups combined at most came to 1/5 of Bernies voters, hopefully a smaller number. But anyway, when it comes to democratic primary there are 2 major groups of voters: 1. White liberals 2. Black voters Bernie had the white liberal vote locked, but Hillary had the black voters locked. There are obviously other groups, but these 2 groups, combined, probably make up 75%+ of democratic primary voters. For a wide range of reasons, Bernie never connected with the black community. I don’t know if he will have that same problem this time around. However, if Bernie maintains his lock on the white liberal vote (they do not abandon him for Harris or Warren or someone else like that) and if the black vote is split between multiple candidates, then I could easily see Sanders winning. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/55 "2019-02-20T04:00:45Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Other than Warren, I don’t think any of the other dems are actual progressives. They’re probably just pretending to win. Okay, let’s concentrate on just Elizabeth Warren. How many votes is she going to draw from 2016 Sanders supporters? And if Bernie doesn’t get the nomination, how many of his supporters will sit out the general election? The Democrats might not love him as much this time around. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/56 "2019-02-20T04:04:47Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Okay, let’s concentrate on just Elizabeth Warren. How many votes is she going to draw from 2016 Sanders supporters? > > And if Bernie doesn’t get the nomination, how many of his supporters will sit out the general election? The Democrats might not love him as much this time around. I like Warren. She has well fleshed out policy ideas. Her ideas for subsidized daycare and ACA 2.0 are both good plans for example. My concern with her is that being a good president and a good politician aren’t the same. JFK was a good politician, not a very good president. LBJ was an excellent president, mediocre politician. Warren strikes me as an unremarkable politician. I don’t know if she can build a coalition of 65+ million voters in the right states to beat Trump. I’d love to be wrong though. But I think Warren could pull some support from Sanders. But IMO, she is the only real threat to Sander’s lock on the liberal vote. Also Bernie should’ve done more to promote Hillary in 2016. If he pouts again if he loses, I think a lot of his supporters will be quite upset. The vast majority of liberals would rather have an imperfect democrat over Trump. In the long run, it may be better for Trump to have won (because Trump energized the democratic base and made people realize how important voting is). But if Hillary had won we wouldn’t have all these judges, and we wouldn’t have a tax cut on the rich. Also the world would still respect us. But on the subject of policy, it really doesn’t matter. I doubt the democrats control both houses of congress in 2021, and even if we do I doubt we do anything productive with it. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/57 "2019-02-20T05:04:53Z")
This: > [@Pithily\_Effusive](#): > > And I’m wondering what’s behind your use of this pejorative term “dopers”, as though you’re referring to a social class, or a nudge-nudge wink-wink “_We all know_” inference here. followed shortly by: > [@](#): > > It might behoove you to study a bit more before going off authoritatively about something of which you have but scant understanding. is comedy gold. Can we expect more of the same? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/58 "2019-02-20T05:14:00Z")
Sanders / Nader “We’ll see What we can do” - slogan. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/59 "2019-02-20T05:27:20Z")
Bernie is being way under-estimated in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![LoneRhino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lonerhino/32/1311_2.png) [@LoneRhino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LoneRhino)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821/60 "2019-02-20T05:41:24Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > What is with all the Bernie hate? My biggest problem with Bernie is that after 40 years in congress he has no real accomplishments and no foreign policy experience. While I agree with a lot of his message he comes across as someone who has no idea how to implement his agenda. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-makes-it-official-how-far-will-he-go-in-2020/829821.md?page=4)