# Bernie Sanders' White Privilege **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 1, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015 "2021-02-01T22:10:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2021, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/241 "2021-02-06T04:47:03Z")
> [@lum\_s\_husband](#): > > Perhaps you should say what else this would imply other than that those reactions are racism. You seem to have a couple different mistakes you’re making here that need to be sorted out. First, you’re mixing up statements about simply having societal privilege—which is what this thread is discussing with regard to Sanders—with statements about resisting the acknowledgement of societal privilege, which is what that quoted remark was discussing with regard to you. Second, you’re wrong in assuming that statements about resistance to acknowledging white privilege taking the form of denial, distancing or defensiveness constitute accusations that the resisting person is a racist. Plenty of people who adamantly reject and denounce racist beliefs nonetheless have a hard time handling the notion that our societal history of racism has been beneficial to them personally in any way. That’s all societal privilege is: the aftereffects of historical entrenched bigotry which give individuals in the historically dominant categories a persistent advantage, even when the individuals themselves personally reject the bigoted beliefs of the past. So no, nobody here has been accusing you of racism, in either a “veiled” or an unveiled way. People don’t have to be racist in order to be a bit snowflakey about recognizing the existence of white privilege. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2021, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/242 "2021-02-06T04:59:56Z")
Seems like a lot of the crazy seems to be coming specifically from San Francisco, these days. Is there something in the water? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2021, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/243 "2021-02-06T05:32:38Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Seems like a lot of the crazy seems to be coming specifically from San Francisco, these days. Some liberal San Franciscans:The legacy of American racism means that white people still have quite a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle residual advantage in our society. It’s okay to discuss that phenomenon, and discussing it doesn’t automatically mean that we’re accusing specific individuals of being racists here and now. Appallingly large numbers of American conservatives:Trump won the election! The election was stolen! Democrats are a lizard-people cannibal pedophile ring! Trump will have his real re-election inauguration on March 4! Hang Mike Pence! Democrats are socialist communist Marxists! America is being destroyed! Right-wing militias will reclaim America as a proud white Christian nation! Joe Biden is a Chinese puppet! Jewish Space Lasers start forest fires! Trump is a brilliant businessman who built the wall and drained the swamp! Climate change is a hoax! COVID is a hoax! Biden wants to take away your guns! KILL THE TRAITORS! D\_Anconia: Wow, those San Francisco liberals sure are crazy, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2021, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/244 "2021-02-06T08:11:03Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Can Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama, for example, just wear whatever they choose without having to consider how the way they dress will be perceived, or whether their clothing choices will be considered to somehow reflect badly on their entire gender or race? I don’t think so. More to the point in this instance, if Pete Buttigieg or Adam Schiff had come “inappropriately” dressed and sat like a grumpy lump would people have said “Haha, classic Schiff”? I suspect that the same sort of people to get worked up about Obama’s tan suits or Clinton’s pantsuits would get worked up about how Buttigieg or Schiff wasn’t respectful and thus hates America. The only reason why they didn’t bother (much) with Sanders is because it’s Bernie Sanders and everyone already expects this from him. As I stated earlier, I’m a white male and, if I was invited to the inauguration, I wouldn’t feel free to dress like that. If it was cold, I’d just have to cope with being cold rather than busting out my “shovel the driveway” attire. Which suggests to me that maybe being white or male isn’t the principle factor here. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2021, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/245 "2021-02-07T10:29:05Z")
Geezer privilege? ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2021, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/246 "2021-02-07T10:38:10Z")
More like that, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/248 "2021-02-08T12:57:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Plenty of people who adamantly reject and denounce racist beliefs nonetheless have a hard time handling the notion that our societal history of racism has been beneficial to them personally in any way. Declaring that something is a benefit does not make it so. We’re not talking about inequities in education or employment which at least have _some_ zero-sum aspects to them even if they drag society down as a whole. Even instances where dress makes a difference (unlike the inauguration), it is something that hurts someone while benefitting only supremacists. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/249 "2021-02-08T14:30:24Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Declaring that something is a benefit does not make it so. So white people _don’t_ benefit from white privilege? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/250 "2021-02-08T14:32:17Z")
Would they be worse off if no one were judged by their clothing? ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/251 "2021-02-08T15:38:33Z")
I have a dream, where we are judged not by the cut of our coats but by the content of our character… To paraphrase. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/252 "2021-02-08T18:31:10Z")
Didn’t William Henry Harrison die of pneumonia that he picked up at the inauguration? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/253 "2021-02-08T19:36:51Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Would they be worse off if no one were judged by their clothing? Arguably, a world where racial discrimination, racial bias, and racial privilege didn’t exist would make everybody better off in the broad spiritual sense of living in a better world and not having to deal with bigotry. In terms of mundane everyday life, though, a world in which black people are judged more critically than white people for things like their clothing choices gives white people a comparative advantage. Characteristics like sartorial eccentricity in white people are assumed to be due to individual personality quirks or practical priorities, not to alleged general group deficiencies such as “those people don’t know how to dress properly for an occasion”. So white people as a group benefit by comparison to other groups who do get negative fallout from those kinds of prejudices. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/254 "2021-02-09T18:59:55Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > Didn’t William Henry Harrison die of pneumonia that he picked up at the inauguration? You think then they’d gotten a clue that January is not the ideal time for this event. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/255 "2021-02-09T19:04:09Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > You think then they’d gotten a clue that January is not the ideal time for this event. You’d think that they’d have gotten a clue to hold indoor events when the weather is bad. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/256 "2021-02-09T19:51:53Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > You think then they’d gotten a clue that January is not the ideal time for this event. They did. That’s why it was in March before the 20th Amendment was enacted in the 1930’s. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/257 "2021-02-10T13:10:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Race, gender, status, wealth, etc., indubitably affect people’s perceptions of other people. You can’t pretend that those effects don’t exist just because you can’t objectively quantify them in any given case. But you also can’t pretend that those effects are automatically sufficient to explain any phenomenon that you care to apply them to. Apologies for the lateness of this reply, and I hope you don’t think me obtuse, but I still think the notion that this episode is somehow emblematic of white/male/class privilege is unfounded. The issue isn’t that Bernie’s alleged privilege can’t be objectively quantified. The issue is that it can’t be objectively _demonstrated_. People in this thread have said that a black woman would never be able to get away with dressing so casually at an inauguration. But we _know_ that’s not true because **Eyebrows of Doom** found a picture of a black woman dressed in similarly casual attire at Obama’s first inauguration. One may concede that, okay, a black woman may be able to _wear_ such clothes at an inauguration, but she certainly wouldn’t be celebrated for it in meme form. But what politician apart from Bernie _would_ be? Can you imagine thousands of young people making and sharing Nancy Pelosi or Dianne Feinstein or Chuck Schumer mitten memes? I can’t. Bernie’s ability to wear mittens at the inauguration, and the online reaction to them, can be entirely explained by the fact that young people like Bernie, and they like him for the reasons I gave in post 195. The notion that privilege simply _must_ have played a role, even though no-one in this thread has demonstrated how, or where, or why, is a faith claim: privilege must’ve played a role because that’s how privilege works. I’m sorry, but I just don’t find it convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/259 "2021-03-07T13:31:38Z")
Which is warmer for a elderly person, a formal topcoat or a parka? Parka. Which is more appropriate for an outdoor public bring your own chair mass celebration, a formal topcoat or a parka? Parka Which is more in line with being raised as a child of an immigrant minority paint salesman without a penny to spare for curtains and a rug, a formal topcoat or a parka? Parka. Which is more in line with a career rights protester who while in high school organized fundraising for Korean war orphans, a formal topcoat or parka? Parka. Which is less representative of white male power, a formal topcoat or a parka? Parka. So how about judging Senator Sanders for who he is rather than judging him for wearing clothing that is appropriate for the situation and fits well with who he is and the background he comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/260 "2021-03-07T15:28:41Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > So how about judging Senator Sanders for who he is rather than judging him for wearing clothing that is appropriate for the situation and fits well with who he is and the background he comes from. This thread had been quiet for a month, not sure what prompted this response now. And while I agree with the points you made, the point of raising the White Privilege question isn’t that Bernie did something wrong. I don’t think anyone cares what he chose to wear. It’s that no one questions his motivations or actions whereas they would if he wasn’t a white man. Bernie didn’t have to think about how he would be perceived, and that’s the White Privilege. A black man might second guess his choice of clothes because of how people would react - something that a white man rarely does. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/261 "2021-03-07T22:42:28Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > It’s that no one questions his motivations or actions whereas they would if he wasn’t a white man. Bernie didn’t have to think about how he would be perceived, and that’s the White Privilege. A black man might second guess his choice of clothes because of how people would react - something that a white man rarely does. I’m a cishet white male and I think about my clothing choices every time I’m shopping for something to wear to work. During an average workday, I might meet with employees from entry level customer service representatives to the senior vice president of finance. These meetings might be to talk about benefits, to help another department with compliance issues, to sponsor an employee for an H-1B visa, or as part of a formal investigation into a violation of policy or an employee relations issue. I feel the need to wear clothing at all times that would be appropriate to the situation. I’m sure an employee wouldn’t feel confident that I took their sexual harassment complaint seriously if I showed up in a Hawaiian shirt with the Incredible Hulk on it. I’m not going to argue that I have it worse than anyone else. But to suggest that a white man rarely considers his choice of clothing is just silly. I think I was a teenager when I discovered people treated me differently depending on how I dressed. I’m not going to argue that I have it harder or even as hard as other people might, but how I look is a concern. But having acquired a sensitivity to the cold, I can tell you that almost all thoughts of how I look go out the window when it comes to keeping warm. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015/262 "2021-03-07T23:36:38Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I feel the need to wear clothing at all times that would be appropriate to the situation. I’m sure an employee wouldn’t feel confident that I took their sexual harassment complaint seriously if I showed up in a Hawaiian shirt with the Incredible Hulk on it. Understood, but surely you agree that “white-collar work clothes vs. Hawaiian shirt with Incredible Hulk on it” is a much more extreme comparison than “formal topcoat vs. parka” or “gloves vs. mittens”. Nobody AFAICT is claiming that Sanders or any other white cishet man never has to make any thoughtful choice about what he should wear under any circumstances. The observation is simply that Sanders, as a cishet white male, has the privilege of a wider range of choices with less critical scrutiny than many other people do. > [@Odesio](#): > > But having acquired a sensitivity to the cold, I can tell you that almost all thoughts of how I look go out the window when it comes to keeping warm. Also understandable. But, again, the ability to prioritize your comfort over your presentation without suffering any negative consequences for it, even if you only exercise it in special cases due to your cold sensitivity, is part of systemic privilege. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-white-privilege/932015.md?page=14)