# Bernie Withdraws **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 8, 2020, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349 "2020-04-08T15:27:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/321 "2020-04-15T15:43:59Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Again, the goal coming out of his team was ‘win a plurality and take the convention that way’. But that hope assumes all of his opponents would push the stupid button the entire time. It required that the more moderate part of the Democratic Party not see they couldn’t win and stay in, thereby enabling Bernie to continue a minority victory path. Can’t you see how foolish that was as a hope? It was specially foolish after 2016 when Trump did exactly that, did Bernie think the Democrats would just sit back and let the same exact thing happen to them as the GOP? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/322 "2020-04-15T17:14:12Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It was specially foolish after 2016 when Trump did exactly that, did Bernie think the Democrats would just sit back and let the same exact thing happen to them as the GOP? I mentioned before that Sanders did the same thing in 2016: tried to run the Obama primary strategy a second time by racking up big caucus and small state wins while keeping things close enough in large states to gain an overall majority. But, again, this time Clinton wasn’t caught flat-footed and didn’t have the same “Campaign will be over on Super Tuesday, who needs to plan further?” mindset. The Sanders campaign feels like a lesson in generals wanting to fight the last war. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/323 "2020-04-15T17:38:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s foolish to call him a loser when he’s moved the conversation so far to the left. It fundamentally misunderstands the purpose of a campaign like his. That’s part of the problem. An “I don’t mind if I lose as long as I get my message out there” campaign isn’t what Democrats want. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/324 "2020-04-15T18:06:37Z")
Not to mention the Democratic primaries and Republican primaries work very differently. Republican primaries are mostly winner take all. Democratic primaries are proportional. So you can do that sort of thing much easier in the Republican primary. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/325 "2020-04-15T19:51:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That’s part of the problem. An “I don’t mind if I lose as long as I get my message out there” campaign isn’t what Democrats want. “What Democrats want” isn’t at the top of my Christmas list, and I’m not sure how it’s relevant to this particular subthread of conversation. Again, I don’t see this as a team sport, where it’s for entertainment and loyalty to the sports team is of any significance. I see politics as a way to distribute power and as a matter of paramount importance. If Sanders is trying to achieve a more equitable distribution of power (by, for example, increasing access to health care resources by low-income Americans), but if this isn’t what Democrats want, I’m totally cool with that. And when I suggest that winning isn’t his victory condition, I suggest that **in the context of a discussion about the Democratic presidential primary**. If you try to broaden that in any way, it stops being related to what I said. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/326 "2020-04-15T20:11:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Good lord. It is not a sport **because sport is entertainment**. Many people find elections and politics entertaining. Not to mention, I dont find sports at all entertaining. And many do sports just for the exercise. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/327 "2020-04-15T20:24:15Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > According to this page, [ten of the 17 candidates](https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/health-care/medicare-for-all/) supported Medicare for All in some fashion. That’s a majority of the candidates. Bernie might have helped make that position palatable for more mainstream candidates so it is disingenuous to say that he was rejected for people being scared at “changing real-world policies.” > … Umm, no. That’s not what your cite says. In fact, only Sanders supported his Crazy plan gold plated cadillac plan, which he named “Medicare for all” even tho it had nothing whatsoever to do with Medicare. Even Warren stopped supporting it. Many others supported REAL “Medicare for more people” plans, and lots supported some sort of UHC or Public option. So, remember- Even if someone says “Yes, I support giving Medicare to everyone”, that doesnt mean they supported Sanders Plan- since sanders plan had nothing whatsoever to do with Medicare. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/328 "2020-04-15T20:32:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … > So he took his ideas to voters, and organized outside of the Senate. And lo and behold, his ideas were massively popular with voters… No, they weren’t. His ideas were popular with about 28% of Democratic voters, which means popular with about 10% of all voters. 10% isnt “massively” Sure, most voters want some sort of UHC or at least a public option. That doesn’t mean they want Sanders gold plated cadillac plan. And it was more popular until people found out the details- because of course- the devil is in the details. I want UHC. I will accept a public option. To me, asking for Sanders M4A plan is like wanting a Unicorn that shits soft serve ice cream- sure that would be fantastic- but it isnt realistic. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/329 "2020-04-15T20:47:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Many people find elections and politics entertaining. > > Not to mention, I dont find sports at all entertaining. > > And many do sports just for the exercise. Wow. Okay, you got me there. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/330 "2020-04-15T21:06:21Z")
Conservative group Lincoln project endorsed Biden today. Bill Kristol is one of the founders of that group. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/331 "2020-04-15T21:33:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Umm, no. That’s not what your cite says. Actually it does. A majority of candidates want M4A but also were cognizant that it wouldn’t happen like magic, and they had a path towards it. This is still the same endgame, just a different way to achieve it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/332 "2020-04-15T21:51:22Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Actually it does. A majority of candidates want M4A but also were cognizant that it wouldn’t happen like magic, and they had a path towards it. This is still the same endgame, just a different way to achieve it. _"Over the course of the primary, the number of top-tier candidates aligning with Bernie Sanders on Medicare for All has dwindled. Pete Buttigieg and others who previously endorsed the policy backed away from it or rolled out their own more incremental alternatives that they argue are cheaper and preserve a role for private insurers. "_ You are confusing a desire for some sort of UHC as equaling support of sanders plan. And many wanted _medicare for everyone_, not that same as sanders deceptively named “medicare for all” . In the end, it was only Sanders, with Warren coming close. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/333 "2020-04-15T22:12:13Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Which is why he lost. Shake a tree and ten idea guys will fall out. Winning elections is about planning and tactics. > > This is really a spot where Bernie’s idealism - and that of his followers - runs smack into real world cynicism. The world is specifically NOT what you wish it would be. Nor is it what Bernie would wish it to be. Fine. Try to change it. We’re all doing that, everyday. > > But wishing, again, don’t make it so. To win over elections you need a real plan and people to execute it. Bernie didn’t have a plan, he had a hope. Again, the goal coming out of his team was ‘win a plurality and take the convention that way’. But that hope assumes all of his opponents would push the stupid button the entire time. It required that the more moderate part of the Democratic Party not see they couldn’t win and stay in, thereby enabling Bernie to continue a minority victory path. Can’t you see how foolish that was as a hope? > > As for ‘working within’? You say that he couldn’t work with other Democrats to enact his agenda. But he hasn’t really tried. If Bernie had been working with people for the last 15 years he’d be in a better position to be persuasive. Instead, when he entered the race in 2016 he was perceived as this wacky crank from Vermont. He never really got past that. Instead, he and his followers preferred to believe - against evidence - that a coalition party (one by definition is composed of sub-groups) could be hijacked by a particular sub-group and compel the other sub-groups to march to his tune. Also not a good play. > > He also assumed that he could motivate new voters. That’s at least a worthwhile play. Unfortunately, it appears to not have been the case. He could get rallies and enthusiasm. What he couldn’t do it get those people to actually vote. Talking, yes, especially online (which is a small, SMALL part of the electorate), but not actually vote. I worked with a few 2016 Sanders people on the Pete campaign. The number thing they talked about was how to turn the large rallies into large number of votes. The problem is with infrequent and new voters is translating their enthusiasm into votes which is hard and boring work. Everyone wants to listen to a rousing speech and hear cool music. But when you find yourself registered to vote at your parents house and need to jump through hoops to get an absentee ballot (and return it) that becomes work. Proudly being registered as no party preference because you’re above that two party bullshit makes you feel smugly superior until you run into a closed primary and it’s too late to change. And, the endless conspiracy theories spewed by Sanders and his Twitter mob make it easy to believe that the whole thing is rigged. Also, at least in 2016, Bernie definitely had a group of people that would follow him around the country like he was the Grateful Dead and couch surf. That’s great for rally attendance but doesn’t help the vote. Anyway, it’s over. Bernie will never run for President again. 2024 will be definitely different. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/334 "2020-04-15T22:28:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If his victory condition was binary–win or lose–then this is a reasonable analysis. > > But I maintain that’s not how he, or leftists in general, define victory. That’s why the sports analogy is flawed. “Victory” is defined as “advancing policies that make the world better.” > > Sanders spent decades trying to achieve that victory via the senate, with markedly little success. He’s spent the last five years trying to achieve that victory via presidential campaigns and has pushed the Democratic party very far to the left. As such, his presidential campaigns have succeeded where it matters more than his senatorial career has, even though he’s won his senate races and lost his presidential races. Ah, yes, push that fucking window. Yet another reason why Shitbag Sanders is irrelevant. But ok, I’ll happily let Bernie and his nutjobs write the platform. Once it’s printed it’ll be used as toilet paper since platforms are useless in US politics. You send the activists to go write the platform while the adults plan the convention (in normal times) Like it or not, President Biden will have 3 things on his agenda. Covid, the economy and restoring foreign relations. If Bernie chooses to work in the Senate, then I’m sure Biden will sign any piece of progressive legislation. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2020, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/335 "2020-04-15T23:38:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “What Democrats want” isn’t at the top of my Christmas list, Just like winning the primary clearly wasn’t a big part of the Bernie team’s Christmas list. Which is why they couldn’t be trusted with the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/336 "2020-04-16T01:43:43Z")
That’s cool. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/337 "2020-04-16T02:36:02Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is so silly. If the Democratic Party has set up rules for running as a Democrat, and he’s following the rules, why the hell is it his fault if you think the rules should exclude him? He’s not the one who set those rules up. > > If you don’t like how he followed the rules to run as a Democrat, direct your snark at the party officials who failed to change the rules in 2017, and who likely won’t change the rules now. > > Politics isn’t a team sport. He used the mechanisms of power by the rules those mechanisms set up to try to change the balance of power. You can’t ask for fairer than that. Hey, **Left Hand of Dorkness** , I’ve started a thread to explore this issue. As a furriner, I’m always trying to understand your political system and this post made me wonder still more. [Could the Democratic Party have kept Bernie off the [ballot for the] Primaries?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=894224) ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/338 "2020-04-16T08:35:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Good lord. It is not a sport **because sport is entertainment**. Sooo…you, and me, and all of us here in this thread are reading and commenting as much as we do about politics because, despite how much we might prefer to read or watch some entertaining diversion, we are principled and high-minded enough to devote attention to this as our civic duty? Nothing about it being an entertainment for us? Riiight. :dubious: You do realize the saying “politics ain’t beanbag” is not based on an unspoken premise “because beanbag is a sport, and politics definitely ain’t a sport”? 😕 > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > He built a team involving people who currently hold power. That wasn’t an option for Sanders, because what he’s fighting for is to overturn the current structures of power. This is an interesting picture you paint, where a U.S. senator, whose delegates were successful in 2017 in changing many DNC rules, is not one of the people who “hold power”. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Sanders wants his ideas to win more than he wants to win. I believe precisely the opposite is true. Not that he would ever admit it, probably not even to himself, so it’s fruitless to argue the point. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > He’s agitated for his ideas for decades in the Senate, refusing to compromise. ORLY? What about when he voted for Obamacare despite its not being single payer and not even having a public option? (BTW, “decades” is hyperbole, unless you meant “in Congress” rather than “in the Senate”, where he has served for only 14 years, not even a decade and a half.) > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Which is why he lost. Shake a tree and ten idea guys will fall out. Winning elections is about planning and tactics. > > This is really a spot where Bernie’s idealism - and that of his followers - runs smack into real world cynicism. The world is specifically NOT what you wish it would be. Nor is it what Bernie would wish it to be. Fine. Try to change it. We’re all doing that, everyday. > > But wishing, again, don’t make it so. To win over elections you need a real plan and people to execute it. Bernie didn’t have a plan, he had a hope. Again, the goal coming out of his team was ‘win a plurality and take the convention that way’. But that hope assumes all of his opponents would push the stupid button the entire time. It required that the more moderate part of the Democratic Party not see they couldn’t win and stay in, thereby enabling Bernie to continue a minority victory path. Can’t you see how foolish that was as a hope? > > As for ‘working within’? You say that he couldn’t work with other Democrats to enact his agenda. But he hasn’t really tried. If Bernie had been working with people for the last 15 years he’d be in a better position to be persuasive. Instead, when he entered the race in 2016 he was perceived as this wacky crank from Vermont. He never really got past that. Instead, he and his followers preferred to believe - against evidence - that a coalition party (one by definition is composed of sub-groups) could be hijacked by a particular sub-group and compel the other sub-groups to march to his tune. Also not a good play. > > He also assumed that he could motivate new voters. That’s at least a worthwhile play. Unfortunately, it appears to not have been the case. He could get rallies and enthusiasm. What he couldn’t do it get those people to actually vote. Talking, yes, especially online (which is a small, SMALL part of the electorate), but not actually vote. This whole post is made of win, and I literally LOL’d at “pushing the stupid button”. But I do have a slight nitpick with your last point. I think it’s quite possible that he DID “get those people to actually vote”, assuming you meant that “those people” are the people at his rallies. It’s just that even a large rally represents a relatively small number of actual voters, and no matter how enthusiastic they are, they each only get to vote once. Perhaps the implicit assumption behind what you are saying is that every voter at a rally is erroneously thought by some (not you) to be like a scientific polling sample, representing X number of voters who are not at the rally. So by that thinking, if you get 10X the attendance at your rally, you will get 10X the votes on primary day. But of course that isn’t true: Biden always got meager attendance at his events, but he got a ton of people to march to the polls and vote for him–which is what matters in the end. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think Bernie did make a mistake by not directly trying to appeal to “mainstream” Democrats (i.e. Democrats who are generally happy with the party). Many of them are gettable voters, IMO, and he didn’t really directly try to appeal to them. This is the main part of Matt Yglesias’s critique, AFAICT, and it makes sense to me. Well said. You and I had dramatically differing goals in that I thought it would have been a huge mistake to nominate Bernie. I’m very glad Bernie made this tactical error. But whatever side you’re on, you really have to concede that especially right after winning Nevada, it was a huge own-goal to go on Twitter and on TV at his rallies and taunt the Democratic mainstream “Nyaahh nyeahh, you can’t stop us”. :smack: And then it’s a bad look for his followers to get their noses all bent out of joint when the reaction to that is “Oh yeah? Just watch us.” > [@DrDeth](#): > > So, remember- Even if someone says “Yes, I support giving Medicare to everyone”, that doesnt mean they supported Sanders Plan- since sanders plan had nothing whatsoever to do with Medicare. Good point. For a supposedly “principled” leader, Bernie was deeply dishonest in the way he marketed his gold-plated, Christmas-tree single payer plan. > [@dalej42](#): > > Also, at least in 2016, Bernie definitely had a group of people that would follow him around the country like he was the Grateful Dead and couch surf. That’s great for rally attendance but doesn’t help the vote. I hadn’t even thought of this possibility but it totally makes sense. > [@dalej42](#): > > Anyway, it’s over. Bernie will never run for President again. 2024 will be definitely different. Thank god. Even AOC seems like she’s coming around to being a little more pragmatic. Give her a few more years to smooth down the rough edges, and she might be a good candidate for 2028 or 2032. > [@dalej42](#): > > Ah, yes, push that fucking window. Yet another reason why Shitbag Sanders is irrelevant. But ok, I’ll happily let Bernie and his nutjobs write the platform. Once it’s printed it’ll be used as toilet paper since platforms are useless in US politics. You send the activists to go write the platform while the adults plan the convention (in normal times) LOL, exactly. It’s almost kind of cute, like the kid in the carseat with one of those little plastic steering wheels, who thinks he’s driving the car. But as long as it makes them feel like they’re doing something, sure: knock yourself out, kids. (And no: I wouldn’t say any of this on Twitter, where it could actually have a chance to “go viral” in a bad way and do some damage. It’s nice to be able to honestly vent my spleen in this little corner of the Internet without fear of that kind of backlash.) ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/339 "2020-04-16T13:57:00Z")
Yeah, I asked my Bernie Bro youngest brother a few weeks ago to choose one thing. Just one thing. Of Bernie’s goals that he would want. If Bernie cut a deal that he’d support Biden in return for Biden committing to one part of Bernie’s platform to honestly push for. He wouldn’t choose. He’s an all or nothing guy, apparently. When I texted him about Bernie’s endorsement and whether that endorsement and Biden’s acceptance of $15/hour minimum wage changed his feelings he said it didn’t and he still supported Bernie and would never support Biden. Fucking Moron. I mean, I suppose I get it. He’s hurting. Back after New Hampshire, he was texting me means about ‘it’s happening!’ and such and to see it taken away by actual political maneuvering must really smart. But I’ve told him since he first got political in 2015 - Bernie woke him up so there’s that - that politics is a contact sport. We play for keeps, here. But he continues to feel that he and Bernie were somehow robbed. He’s mistaking the support he sees among his circle or friends and his online places as indicating real, national-level support that was both reliable and broad-based. I just don’t know how to get through to him. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/340 "2020-04-16T14:12:42Z")
Same with my 20yo son. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349.md?page=18)