# Bernie Withdraws **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 8, 2020, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349 "2020-04-08T15:27:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/341 "2020-04-16T15:06:17Z")
Yeah, my Bernie Bro buddy had bizarre views on his popularity. He honestly thought Bernie had majority support throughout the minority voters. “So why didn’t he do better in South Carolina?” “Oh that state is super conservative”. Alright. And he simultaneously was pissed that Buttigieg and Klobuchar dropped out to screw Bernie but also didn’t think that Bernie needed the split field. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/342 "2020-04-16T18:19:43Z")
Senator Elizabeth Warren endorses Joe Biden for president: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/8kbd-Og8_CQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Senator Elizabeth Warren endorses Joe Biden for president") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kbd-Og8_CQ) ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/343 "2020-04-16T18:26:05Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Yeah, I asked my Bernie Bro youngest brother a few weeks ago to choose one thing. Just one thing. Of Bernie’s goals that he would want. If Bernie cut a deal that he’d support Biden in return for Biden committing to one part of Bernie’s platform to honestly push for. > > He wouldn’t choose. He’s an all or nothing guy, apparently. When I texted him about Bernie’s endorsement and whether that endorsement and Biden’s acceptance of $15/hour minimum wage changed his feelings he said it didn’t and he still supported Bernie and would never support Biden. Fucking Moron. > > I mean, I suppose I get it. He’s hurting. Back after New Hampshire, he was texting me means about ‘it’s happening!’ and such and to see it taken away by actual political maneuvering must really smart. But I’ve told him since he first got political in 2015 - Bernie woke him up so there’s that - that politics is a contact sport. We play for keeps, here. But he continues to feel that he and Bernie were somehow robbed. He’s mistaking the support he sees among his circle or friends and his online places as indicating real, national-level support that was both reliable and broad-based. > > I just don’t know how to get through to him. I would have told him to push the panic button after NH, which should have been the ultimate layup. Bernie won it barely but tied for delegates with Pete. Bernie crushed Clinton in 2016. ‘But it’s a big field!!!’ Yeah, that should tell you that a lot of Bernie’s 2016 support was ‘Not Clinton!!!’ ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/344 "2020-04-16T22:58:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > He built a team involving people who currently hold power. That wasn’t an option for Sanders, because what he’s fighting for is to overturn the current structures of power. So you’re saying Biden built a better team. Yes, he did. Can’t disagree with that. Biden built the team that actually won, by getting more votes. Sanders is in the position he is because he chose to be. He chose not to be a member of the party he proposed to lead, and chose not to build much in the way of political allies. Those are things that hurt you when running to be a party’s nominee. He lost because of his own decisions. > [@](#): > > I think that the difference between his ideas, and the ideas of other elected Democrats, was the real barrier. Democrats who support M4A are a dime a dozen, and he failed to convince them. The problem with Bernie Sanders isn’t ideas. Most of his ideas are quite popular. The problem with Bernie Sanders is Bernie Sanders; too many people dislike him, distrust him, and don’t think he’s be a capable President. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/345 "2020-04-16T23:17:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > …Democrats who support M4A are a dime a dozen, and he failed to convince them. > > The problem with Bernie Sanders isn’t ideas. Most of his ideas are quite popular. The problem with Bernie Sanders is Bernie Sanders; too many people dislike him, distrust him, and don’t think he’s be a capable President. Kind of this. I’d be happy to have medicare for all, although I would prefer to follow the Swiss or Netherlands model. But I don’t think Bernie would be a good president. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/346 "2020-04-17T03:56:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > … > > Democrats who support M4A are a dime a dozen, and he failed to convince them. > … Bernie’s version of M4A ended with exactly one candidate supporting it- Bernie. Warren started out supporting it, then changed to a more modest program - that she said might hopefully end in Bernies plan\* someday. \* ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/347 "2020-04-17T11:25:15Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Democrats who support M4A are a dime a dozen, and he failed to convince them. This statement is really vague. Do you mean Democratic politicians, or Democratic voters? Do you mean M4AwWi, or do you mean literally M4A? These aren’t academic questions: they radically change the truth of what you’re saying, as well as its significance. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/348 "2020-04-17T13:57:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This statement is really vague. Do you mean Democratic politicians, or Democratic voters? Do you mean M4AwWi, or do you mean literally M4A? > > These aren’t academic questions: they radically change the truth of what you’re saying, as well as its significance. I read it as members of the party - or generic lefties. The real sad part about the M4A fracas is an economic one - and not the one you’re thinking. It’s the difference between absolutists and incrementalists. The real advantage of M4A isn’t necessarily that it’s good, or that it’ll cover people or whatever. Those are nice but there are other universal healthcare options that would fill those same roles. No, the real advantage to pushing M4A is that it is EASY. It’s easy to present and sell. It takes an existing federal program - one that is already very popular with those who use it - and expand those eligible. There’s not a lot of explanation necessary there. Voters already know of the plan and are aware of people already using it. Where the fight becomes tragic between the absolutists and the incrementalists is that we’d end up in essentially the same place either way. Establish M4A NOW and we get a pushback. Open up a Medicare opt-in and other time most - or all - will eventually opt in and we’ll have achieved M4A who want it and have given people a choice that they can feel good about. That’s how you win people’s support, not by imposing something. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/349 "2020-04-17T14:59:07Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I read it as members of the party - or generic lefties. > > The real sad part about the M4A fracas is an economic one - and not the one you’re thinking. It’s the difference between absolutists and incrementalists. > > The real advantage of M4A isn’t necessarily that it’s good, or that it’ll cover people or whatever. Those are nice but there are other universal healthcare options that would fill those same roles. > > No, the real advantage to pushing M4A is that it is EASY. It’s easy to present and sell. It takes an existing federal program - one that is already very popular with those who use it - and expand those eligible. There’s not a lot of explanation necessary there. Voters already know of the plan and are aware of people already using it. > > Where the fight becomes tragic between the absolutists and the incrementalists is that we’d end up in essentially the same place either way. Establish M4A NOW and we get a pushback. Open up a Medicare opt-in and other time most - or all - will eventually opt in and we’ll have achieved M4A who want it and have given people a choice that they can feel good about. That’s how you win people’s support, not by imposing something. Exactly. There’s a tendency among hard core Bernistas to sneer at the people that are ‘too stupid’ to realize they have the worst health care in the developed world. They should all rise up out of the cubicle, grab the pitchforks and torches and take to the streets now!!! Except it doesn’t work that way in the real world. No one likes getting the premium increase when they get the email about annual enrollment for benefits. But, that’s far better than when the entire health care plan is changing. My former company slimily made a change to a high deductible plan as the ACA was being rolled out knowing the average worker bee would blame it all on Obamacare which had nothing to do with the change. And, perhaps the Bernie folk should look at a calendar and a map and realize this isn’t England after WWII and we can’t just elect an Atlee and get universal health care overnight. So, yes, incrementalism is all that will work. Not so radical change backfired with Hillary’s health care plan of the 1990s and even the ACA has to be watered down to get it through a Democratic supermajority ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/350 "2020-04-17T15:19:16Z")
Nah it’s bad you can lose it at any moment if you even have it that its tied to your job and any pre-exisiting conditions and any of that might kill you or your kids or your partner. Not cool. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/351 "2020-04-17T15:37:07Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > Nah it’s bad you can lose it at any moment if you even have it that its tied to your job and any pre-exisiting conditions and any of that might kill you or your kids or your partner. Not cool. Boy, you’re going to have to translate that for me. I can’t follow. Are you saying that the ACA is employer dependent? Because I know Medicate isn’t. ACA isn’t, as well. I’m using an ACA plan and haven’t had to worry about any employer issues during my time on it. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/352 "2020-04-17T15:44:13Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Boy, you’re going to have to translate that for me. I can’t follow. > > Are you saying that the ACA is employer dependent? Because I know Medicate isn’t. > > ACA isn’t, as well. I’m using an ACA plan and haven’t had to worry about any employer issues during my time on it. Sorry was just in chat with some friends the US. Epilepsy not covered. Casual workers who had a comfortable living, they are fucked now. What can they do? They can’t afford COBRA for long and don’t know what to do ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/353 "2020-04-17T15:54:08Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > Sorry was just in chat with some friends the US. Epilepsy not covered. Casual workers who had a comfortable living, they are fucked now. > > What can they do? They can’t afford COBRA for long and don’t know what to do That’s still not responsive to my question. If you’re talking about the current system of employer-based plans - which we really weren’t - you’re right. I think most of us here would acknowledge that going forward with such is impractical and suboptimal. But we were discussing Medicare and the ACA. Neither of which are employer sponsored and neither of which can you be kicked off for losing your job. COBRA doesn’t apply to them, either. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/354 "2020-04-17T16:23:55Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That’s still not responsive to my question. > > If you’re talking about the current system of employer-based plans - which we really weren’t - you’re right. I think most of us here would acknowledge that going forward with such is impractical and suboptimal. > > But we were discussing Medicare and the ACA. Neither of which are employer sponsored and neither of which can you be kicked off for losing your job. COBRA doesn’t apply to them, either. We are in a global crisis, please help everyone have access to health care, you said you are up in the Democrat party or have been. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/355 "2020-04-17T16:45:53Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Boy, you’re going to have to translate that for me. I can’t follow. > > Are you saying that the ACA is employer dependent? Because I know Medicate isn’t. > > ACA isn’t, as well. I’m using an ACA plan and haven’t had to worry about any employer issues during my time on it. What is with people pretending to be jolly about not understanding things? ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/356 "2020-04-17T16:53:16Z")
Good night but [nomeansno](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP11hhoanmg)are always good to listen to ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/357 "2020-04-17T18:04:55Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > … > > No, the real advantage to pushing M4A is that it is EASY. It’s easy to present and sell. It takes an existing federal program - one that is already very popular with those who use it - and expand those eligible. … Except that sanders plan- also called M4A- has nothing whatsoever to do with Medicare. Not even a little bit. So, when you say “M4A” we dont know if you are talking about sanders crazy gold plated cadillac plan, or Real Medicare for all. Night and day. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/358 "2020-04-17T18:09:03Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > What is with people pretending to be jolly about not understanding things? Your posts make no sense. Either sanders crazy gold plated cadillac plan,\*\* or\*\* Real Medicare for all- both would provide healthcare for all regardless of employment status and regardless of pre-existing conditions. You cant "lose it at any moment ". Were you posting drunk or something? Mind you, I wouldn’t blame you. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/359 "2020-04-17T22:12:06Z")
The one where poor Americans get health care ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349/360 "2020-04-17T22:36:21Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > The one where poor Americans get health care Medicaid. Medical. ACA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-withdraws/851349.md?page=19)