# Bernie's Legacy **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 7, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749 "2016-06-07T16:14:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/21 "2016-06-08T15:24:55Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > In the short term, I’m hoping to see reform in the nominating process, getting rid of superdelegates and closed primaries. I don’t see much of a movement to get rid of the superdelegates. I think the prevailing attitude is they’re a good thing. I also don’t think many people care if primaries are open or closed, although I’m not opposed to open primaries. The caucuses have to go, however. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/22 "2016-06-08T16:38:02Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > The Democrats have been put on notice that there are a lot more progressive voters out there than they had thought. Hillary is cautious and conservative by nature, but she’s not stupid and she likes winning, so I definitely think her Administration will pursue somewhat more progressive policies than it would have had Sanders not run such a strong campaign. > > **…snip…** > > Given the demographic split we saw in this primary race, it appears that all the momentum in the long run is with the progressive side. Of course this could change, but I feel I have more reason to be optimistic about the long-range trends in American politics than ever before. > I am hoping that Sanders will be remembered as the Goldwater to some near-future socialist President’s Reagan. I am cautiously optimistic you are on target here. As has been mentioned in other threads, for Bernie’s campaign to have a lasting impact it is imperative that the people drawn to the progressive cause get involved on the local or state level and work to see people elected who support those positions. Change is possible but to bring about a more progressive Democratic party it is necessary to work from the grassroots level up. Imposing this type of change from the top down is not likely to work. Unfortunately, from the temper tantrums I am seeing on social media today that doesn’t appear likely to happen. The idea progress requires sustained effort over several election cycles seems very unfair to many of his followers. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/23 "2016-06-08T17:09:40Z")
Right now, there is no evidence that the Sanders campaign will birth a lasting progressive movement, and plenty of historical precedent to suggest it won’t. It’s pretty much up to the man himself. How he comports himself in the next couple of weeks (basically now til the convention) will be very telling. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/24 "2016-06-08T17:56:02Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > Right now, there is no evidence that the Sanders campaign will birth a lasting progressive movement, and plenty of historical precedent to suggest it won’t. It’s pretty much up to the man himself. How he comports himself in the next couple of weeks (basically now til the convention) will be very telling. Given polling I’ve seen, there’s no evidence Sanders’s supporters as a whole are particularly progressive. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/25 "2016-06-08T18:30:01Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Given polling I’ve seen, there’s no evidence Sanders’s supporters as a whole are particularly progressive. The ones I’ve come across fall into three camps - or a combination of them: Progressives - “moderate democrats are almost republicans, we need to have European style social benefits - UHC, free college, better social safety net, do more for the environment.” Disestablishmentarianists - “the establishment is corrupt. Outsiders are good. Change is cathartic. Hillary is part of a corrupt establishment” Liberal unconscious (for the most part) misogynists - “I don’t like Hillary, she seems bitchy, mean, aggressive. She isn’t qualified. She is riding Bill’s coattails and has no accomplishments of her own.” The last two are not progressives, they aren’t pro-anything - those people are simply against something. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/26 "2016-06-08T18:44:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > One his main hammered at points was Wall street money controlling politics. You don’t have to connect many dots to conclude Democratic party corruption. Well actually a lot of support for Trump and Tea Party Republicans came from people who also share this view. So we have a situation where currently both the Democratic and the Republican establishments are tightly aligned with Wall Street and the clear majority of the population very negative about this. So it could well be a candidate who shares this view without the flaws of Sanders and Trump could win the in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/27 "2016-06-08T20:43:54Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > The ones I’ve come across fall into three camps - or a combination of them: > > Progressives - “moderate democrats are almost republicans, we need to have European style social benefits - UHC, free college, better social safety net, do more for the environment.” > > Disestablishmentarianists - “the establishment is corrupt. Outsiders are good. Change is cathartic. Hillary is part of a corrupt establishment” > > Liberal unconscious (for the most part) misogynists - “I don’t like Hillary, she seems bitchy, mean, aggressive. She isn’t qualified. She is riding Bill’s coattails and has no accomplishments of her own.” > > The last two are not progressives, they aren’t pro-anything - those people are simply against something. Really? Maybe. I would say, rather, that it’s a mix of [ul] [li]good government voters not wanting to vote for someone with Hillary’s record of dubious conflicts of interest and shady deals;[/li][li]anti-regime-change voters who want someone who didn’t push for the Second Gulf War;[/li][li]the younger online generation who realize that they’re getting a raw deal compared to people in other First World nations;[/li][li]ideological progressives who want a politician whose progressivism isn’t just campaign lies;[/li][li]environmentalists upset about Keystone XL and fracking (Bernie was the only anti-fracking candidate);[/li][\*]and probably some protectionists who really hate TPP.[/ul]But yeah, your list is in there too. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/28 "2016-06-08T20:45:03Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Well actually a lot of support for Trump and Tea Party Republicans came from people who also share this view. So we have a situation where currently both the Democratic and the Republican establishments are tightly aligned with Wall Street and the clear majority of the population very negative about this. So it could well be a candidate who shares this view without the flaws of Sanders and Trump could win the in 2020. Or, more likely, Trump will win this year. Keep whistling past that graveyard! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/29 "2016-06-08T20:47:57Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Most reform candidates’ idea of change begins and ends with them being put in charge, no matter how much rhetoric they dress it in. The word “reform” in that sentence is superfluous. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/30 "2016-06-09T01:44:12Z")
his only major legacy will be to further pit the left against the Jewish State of Israel. No one is gonna accept his crazy proposals, communist tax levels, trying to implement single payer in the US, etc. Maybe the Dems will do $15 min wage instead of $12.5, maybe. But that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/31 "2016-06-09T15:36:14Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > his only major legacy will be to further pit the left against the Jewish State of Israel. You are becoming a one-trick pony. Neither Sanders nor Obama has said anything upsetting about your beloved country. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/32 "2016-06-09T15:54:38Z")
When was the last time a nomination runner-up had a “legacy”? (No picking someone who was runnerup once and later actually got a nomination, like Reagan.) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/33 "2016-06-09T15:55:58Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > his only major legacy will be to further pit the left against the Jewish State of Israel. No one is gonna accept his crazy proposals, communist tax levels, trying to implement single payer in the US, etc. Maybe the Dems will do $15 min wage instead of $12.5, maybe. But that’s it. So Sanders is one of those self hating jews, eh? Is there no beginning to your knowledge on any given subject? I WISH American taxes were as low as [taxes in the Soviet Union](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-63866.html). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/34 "2016-06-09T18:22:42Z")
[Robert Reich’s open letter to Sanders.](http://robertreich.org/post/145616017895) ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/35 "2016-06-09T19:02:23Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So Sanders is one of those self hating jews, eh? > > Is there no beginning to your knowledge on any given subject? > > I WISH American taxes were as low as [taxes in the Soviet Union](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-63866.html). yes, Bernie is a self-hater; he pretends to be from “Polish immigrants” even tho in Poland and much of Europe, being Jewish is considered a different ethnicity than Polish in Poland, Russian in Russia, etc. as Tatar and Chechen aren’t considered to be ethnically Russian even tho they’re physically in Russia. Bernie feeds deliberate mischaracterizations of Israel (like the Gaza death toll); you only lie about someone when you don’t like them and intend to hurt them. He tries to pal around with the Pope to make everyone think he’s “not really Jewish.” He hides from being Jews and demeans real Jewry; He’s a self-hater. > [@](#): > > You are becoming a one-trick pony. Neither Sanders nor Obama has said anything upsetting about your beloved country. Given that Israel is a free democracy, per Freedom House, one’s moral compass can be gauged by how well or poorly he regards Israel in contextual comparison to its unfree, autocratic, closed society neighbors. And back to Bernie’s legacy, it’ll amount to a big nothing, because the protectionism he and Trump are pushing will sound good until economics unpeel the economic recession it would cause. This country is too big as is the current health system to dismantle it and replace it with single payer. [90% taxes 60 years ago is very different than 80% taxes would be with today’s laws](https://www.aei.org/publication/returning-to-the-90-top-tax-rates-of-the-1950s-would-probably-be-terrible-for-the-us-economy/). Bernie was opposition that was supposed to be token but has no outworn its welcome. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/36 "2016-06-09T19:11:45Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > yes, Bernie is a self-hater; he pretends to be from “Polish immigrants” even tho in Poland and much of Europe, being Jewish is considered a different ethnicity than Polish in Poland, Russian in Russia, etc. as Tatar and Chechen aren’t considered to be ethnically Russian even tho they’re physically in Russia. You seem to be as ignorant of ethnicity in Europe as you are of the statements of the politicians you criticize. It’s ridiculous to claim that because someone mentions the country of their ancestry that they’re a “self-hater”. > [@](#): > > Bernie feeds deliberate mischaracterizations of Israel (like the Gaza death toll); you only lie about someone when you don’t like them and intend to hurt them. Cite? > [@](#): > > He tries to pal around with the Pope to make everyone think he’s “not really Jewish.” He hides from being Jews and demeans real Jewry; He’s a self-hater. More utter nonsense. > [@](#): > > Given that Israel is a free democracy, per Freedom House, one’s moral compass can be gauged by how well or poorly he regards Israel in contextual comparison to its unfree, autocratic, closed society neighbors. Provide evidence that he shows less regard for Israel than Israel’s neighbors. And does the same go for America? Given that America is a free democracy, is your moral compass gauged as very low considering the consistently false statements and baseless low regard you hold for America’s President? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/37 "2016-06-09T19:45:53Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > The whole time of his campaign, it has been said that even if he didn’t win, he would bring a lot of good changes to the country. What are the changes going to be? He has already gotten a few states to give up superdelegates. He may have pulled Hillary more to the left in the debates, but will she stay there? He will have the same lasting legacy as Perot and Nader, which is to say…none. Basically, the same legacy as Trump, who will, happily, be forgotten when Clinton crushes him like a bug in November. As to Clinton being pulled left, I doubt it. Candidates always run to their base during the primaries, but in the general election and certainly once she is elected I fully expect her to be basically Obama all over again. That’s why I’m voting for her in fact…I thought Obama was a good, solid choice and he certainly has been mostly a moderate as president and I expect the same from Clinton. Honestly, I think that’s the natural level most US presidents actually administer from in the end…possibly a bit right or left of center, but mainly if they want to actually get anything done they need to be fairly close to the US center. Bernie I expect would have either conformed to that model as well or he’d be another Carter, and outsider with very little political capital or ability to do more than make speeches. Trump, if he was elected would be the same thing…either he’d conform or he’d basically just be some idiot frothing at the mouth and posting on twitter about how he wants his stupid wall. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/38 "2016-06-09T19:59:59Z")
Small donor campaign financing. So big a change, we haven’t absorbed it yet. If TV advertising and such doesn’t work any more, and evidence indicates that it doesn’t, then what? How do you write a check to influence Facebook? Who do you bribe? Remember when they spent $40 million dollars just in New Hampshire to bump Jeb(!) a couple of points…just a _couple of points!_…and failed? Why? Did Jeb(!) publicly eat a live rat onstage at his rally? Was he outed as a transexual Nazi? No, just the usual Candidate. Operating in the time honored, tested and reliable methods that always worked before. Nothing changes. Until it does. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/39 "2016-06-09T20:14:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Small donor campaign financing. So big a change, we haven’t absorbed it yet. If TV advertising and such doesn’t work any more, and evidence indicates that it doesn’t, then what? How do you write a check to influence Facebook? Who do you bribe? > > Remember when they spent $40 million dollars just in New Hampshire to bump Jeb(!) a couple of points…just a _couple of points!_…and failed? Why? Did Jeb(!) publicly eat a live rat onstage at his rally? Was he outed as a transexual Nazi? No, just the usual Candidate. Operating in the time honored, tested and reliable methods that always worked before. > > Nothing changes. Until it does. He should’ve eaten the rat. Donald would. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749/40 "2016-06-09T21:10:56Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Trump, if he was elected would be the same thing…either he’d conform or he’d basically just be some idiot frothing at the mouth and posting on twitter about how he wants his stupid wall. I have one thing to say in response: SCOTUS. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-legacy/756749.md?page=3)