# Bernie's Soviet "honeymoon" and trips to Nicaragua and Cuba are disqualifying. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 5, 2016, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209 "2016-02-05T06:15:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/201 "2016-02-09T03:59:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Is there a shortage? Serious question. I know there are all kinds of small private nursing schools around here (it’s a growth industry in Florida, a state with such a large elderly population), I was a librarian for one once and I hear them advertised on the radio all the time, so maybe that skews my perceptions. From about 25 to 10 years ago there was a shortage of both, yeah. I don’t know how bad it is now, nor what state governments have done to alleviate it in the interim. But I thought it was strange that in the PPACA discussions, the issue never came up. At the very least, lifting the 1990’s cap on federally funded resident salaries would have made sense. It was some ‘interesting’ messaging control there; frustrating for those of us who knew about the real problems. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/202 "2016-02-09T04:18:01Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Right now, with Russia as our rival, and as we are fighting ISIS and other Islamist terrorists? Right now even a hint that a candidate may have been sympathetic with the government of the most powerful enemy we have ever had is fatal. Says you. Russia is not communist anymore and there is no indication whatsoever that Sanders is sympathetic to Radical Islam. The most powerful enemy you are facing right now is the ogliarchs and billionaires destroying the middle class while taking more and more for themselves. Sanders would be against Russian ogliarchs just like he’s against the Wall Street ones. Terrorism is a distraction, its no real threat to the US and it never was. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/203 "2016-02-09T04:36:00Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Russia is not communist anymore Not nominally, no. But its current, and widely reviled, leader Vladimir Putin said the following in 2005: “First and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/204 "2016-02-09T04:50:30Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > “First and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.” Context please? I think you’ll find he was bemoaning the fact that the Soviet Satellite states were now independent, not that he wanted communism back. That Putin wants to recreate a greater Russian empire is no secret to anyone. Find me a quote that Sanders is in any way sympathetic to Putin? I’ll be here waiting. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/205 "2016-02-09T05:07:02Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But its current, and widely reviled, leader Vladimir Putin . . . What, Trump **loves** him! ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/206 "2016-02-09T05:12:30Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Says you. Russia is not communist anymore and there is no indication whatsoever that Sanders is sympathetic to Radical Islam. The most powerful enemy you are facing right now is the ogliarchs and billionaires destroying the middle class while taking more and more for themselves. > > Sanders would be against Russian ogliarchs just like he’s against the Wall Street ones. Terrorism is a distraction, its no real threat to the US and it never was. This sounds typical of Bernie’s usual scapegoating. I, and many other people, just don’t buy it. And not because we haven’t been exposed to this sort of internationalist point of view. It’s just way too naive. There isn’t some boogeyman cabal of rich people holding you down. And as much as you might want to not have enemies, you don’t always have that choice. You can’t just ignore what is happening in the world, especially when there is a group committing genocide, who is intent on attacking us and our allies. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/207 "2016-02-09T05:36:21Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > There isn’t some boogeyman cabal of rich people holding you down. Please go check the growth in productivity vs growth in real wages since 1970, now check the ratio of CEO to average worker wages again since 1970. I’ll wait. There is no evidence that Bernie is sympathetic towards Putin or radical Islam, so what’s the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/208 "2016-02-09T05:46:37Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > You can’t just ignore what is happening in the world, especially when there is a group committing genocide, who is intent on attacking us and our allies. There’s always someone who wants to bring you down. Whether or not they can actually do it is the part that matters. ISIS kills less people than swimming pools or industrial accidents or livestock. Their goal is to make you believe they’re a relevant threat, and you’re falling for it. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/209 "2016-02-09T05:50:57Z")
> [@Dumbguy](#): > > There’s always someone who wants to bring you down. Whether or not they can actually do it is the part that matters. ISIS kills less people than swimming pools or industrial accidents or livestock. Their goal is to make you believe they’re a relevant threat, and you’re falling for it. Furthermore ISIS had a lousy 2015: they lost territory. The foreign attacks are a sign of weakness. ISIS needs to be managed. By professionals, as opposed to blowhard sloganeering. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/210 "2016-02-09T05:55:15Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Not nominally, no. But its current, and widely reviled, leader Vladimir Putin said the following in 2005: > > “First and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.” > :dubious: You do realize vague Soviet nostalgia or not, Russia is a plutocratic capitalist country with a far more thinner social welfare net compared to even America much less social democratic Europe and with a flat tax rate to boot? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/211 "2016-02-09T05:59:05Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Not a joke. This sort of white male self-hating does nothing to achieve any progress and makes me increasingly yearn for a new Huey Long or an American Juan Peron to kick out both the plutocrats and SJWs from this country. Perhaps America’s only hope is what Spengler would have called [Prussian Socialism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preussentum_und_Sozialismus). ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/212 "2016-02-09T06:02:28Z")
I’m not self hating. Just a Democrat, and a pragmatic one. I support a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants; however, if they tended to vote Republican, I would be agitating for a Trumpian wall. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/213 "2016-02-09T08:48:49Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I’m not self hating. Just a Democrat, and a pragmatic one. I support a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants; however, if they tended to vote Republican, I would be agitating for a Trumpian wall. So is everything about cynical vote-manipulation for you? > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Here’s a sample of what will come. Some of it is misinformation, but correcting the falsehoods will require implicitly acknowledging the truth of much of it: > > [Don’t be fooled by Bernie Sanders — he’s a diehard communist](http://nypost.com/2016/01/16/dont-be-fooled-by-bernie-sanders-hes-a-diehard-communist/) This can be corrected by explaining who Eugene Debs was, which is a \*good \*thing. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > This sort of white male self-hating does nothing to achieve any progress and makes me increasingly yearn for a new Huey Long or an American Juan Peron to kick out both the plutocrats and SJWs from this country. 😕 Aren’t you Korean-American? What’s with the white nationalist jive lately? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/214 "2016-02-09T10:24:18Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > So is everything about cynical vote-manipulation for you? Yes, but it’s ultimately for a good cause. Much like the Clintons, Carville, Begala, etc. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > This can be corrected by explaining who Eugene Debs was, which is a \*good \*thing. Debs was cool. But maybe you and **coremelt** can settle between you whether history is to be remembered by the voters, or forgotten. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/215 "2016-02-09T13:15:59Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But maybe you and **coremelt** can settle between you whether history is to be remembered by the voters, or forgotten. 😉 Come back to me when you have something more relevant on Sanders than what he did 30 years ago. Meanwhile for Clinton in more recent history we have Benghazi, the email server, taking massive payments for wall street speaking engagements, whitewater, her position on the 2008 financial crisis etc etc. Yeah history matters but I think you’ll find more recent history matters more. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/216 "2016-02-09T13:18:03Z")
30 years ago Sanders was in 46. If that’s not relevant, than it wasn’t relevant what Barack Obama or Bill Clinton did the day before. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/217 "2016-02-09T13:53:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > 30 years ago Sanders was in 46. If that’s not relevant, than it wasn’t relevant what Barack Obama or Bill Clinton did the day before. Except your “scandals” about Sanders are either beliefs he held or completely legal actions like going on a sister city visit. To be relevant you have to prove he still holds the same views he did 30 years ago. 30 years before he became president W Bush was a failed business man, an alcoholic and was arrested for Cocaine usage. Yet he still got voted into office. Clintons scandals are not only more recent but in some cases actually illegal, or lead to deaths of people, or lead to massive financial consequences. Slightly more relevant. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/218 "2016-02-09T13:56:18Z")
That depends on your perspective. Sanders is not ethically challenged like Clinton is, this is true. But one of Clinton’s strengths is that no one doubts her willingness to defend this country from external threats. She’s Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher. Sanders seems to subscribe more to the Leon Blum school. “Let’s build schools instead of an army” and then a few years later those schools were teaching Nazi doctrines under occupation. Sanders’s sympathy for our enemies harkens back to Carter and it could be fatal. It’s not a “scandal” in the sense of him being unethical, but it is a problem. And it wasn’t in his youth. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/219 "2016-02-09T14:05:08Z")
Ah, the fantasy attacks begin. And it’s all guns or all butter, fallacy of the excluded middle, army good and college ungood, love Big Sister until Big Brother comes along to hold us safe in the arms of a real man, Sanders doubleplusungood, Hillary good, a candidate to be named later doubleplusgood, by jingo. LOL Keep comparing her to Thatcher, I like that. Sanders’s chances of winning the nomination get better every time. More seriously, she’s not Winston Churchill, and Thatcher is not the shining example you think. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209/220 "2016-02-09T14:09:09Z")
Well, I’m a conservative, so obviously everything good I say about any candidate is going to be from that perspective. I also admire Sanders’ executive experience, his focus on fixing potholes, which Bill de Blasio could learn from, his straight talking, and his position on guns and immigration. But on foreign policy, Clinton is far and away the better candidate for me, and i actually rate her above Obama and her husband on that count. Best Democrat on foreign policy since Kennedy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernies-soviet-honeymoon-and-trips-to-nicaragua-and-cuba-are-disqualifying/745209.md?page=12)