# Bert and Ernie still not gay **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 18, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556 "2018-09-18T22:19:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/21 "2018-09-19T17:16:46Z")
Personally, I wonder if Ernie and Bert are an interracial couple. ---
**Author:** ![BobBitchin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@BobBitchin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobBitchin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/22 "2018-09-19T17:34:46Z")
Their universe, their rules.:rolleyes: So it appears Ms. Piggy is a nypho with a kink for inter-species froggy bangin…😃 and Bert and Ernie are non sexed adult humanoids who share a bedroom.:smack::D:D It makes very little sense, and I am completely cool with that. ;)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/23 "2018-09-19T19:30:29Z")
Then they realized they were only puppets. Less than dead, they never were–let alone sexual. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/24 "2018-09-19T20:47:38Z")
I can’t imagine any statement that SeameStreetCorp could produce that would convince people that they are NOT gay and would end this stupid debate. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/25 "2018-09-19T22:02:03Z")
I also wonder if they were named for the cop and the taxi driver in _It’s a Wonderful Life_. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/26 "2018-09-19T23:28:42Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > or maybe they are gay, depends on who you ask. 🙂 Isn’t everybody? ---
**Author:** ![Sloe\_Moe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sloe\_Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sloe_Moe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/27 "2018-09-19T23:33:01Z")
“Still.” How pathetic can some people be. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/28 "2018-09-20T15:34:56Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > “Freaking out”? Is that really an accurate description of their reaction? > > It’s natural for them to be asked, and it’s natural for them to give the [Word of God](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod) answer when asked, which is that, no, they’re not gay. And that to say that they are would be to sexualize something that is not sexual. Yes. Very much so. There is no reason for them to have an official position at all. It should never have existed. There is no reason for it to matter whether they are gay, straight, asexual, whatever. But it does to them. Any time anyone suggest they might be gay, they have to make sure everyone knows that they aren’t gay. As if it would be some horrible thing. And, for goodness sake,\* having a gay couple is not sexualizing them any more than having a straight couple\*. That’s the same bullshit the anti-gay people say, saying that homosexuality is sexual and should not be allowed. That’s part of what was so offensive. It was bad enough back in the day. It’s even worse that they’re sticking to it, rather than fixing it by saying it actually doesn’t matter. They should say that it’s okay if you consider them gay, and it’s okay if you don’t. But they won’t, because even allowing people to think of them as gay is apparently extremely horrible. They have to make sure they still appeal to all those bigoted parents who would tune out if there was any possibility that **two non-related men who met and now live with each other and were specifically written with gay tropes from a gay writer were gay.** It would be nice if we’d be past the “no homo” point in our fiction. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/29 "2018-09-20T15:41:37Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Personally, I wonder if Ernie and Bert are an interracial couple. They are both “colored.” Orange and yellow, specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/30 "2018-09-20T17:41:11Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > You may as well ask if Chandler and Joey were gay. They do seem to hug each other an awful lot. And then there were the times that Joey and Ross would sleep together. Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/31 "2018-09-20T18:30:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, for goodness sake,\* having a gay couple is not sexualizing them any more than having a straight couple\*. Correct—nor any less. The issue is not whether or not they are gay: it’s whether or not they are _a couple_ (in the sexual sense). The issue is “What is the essential nature of their relationship?” Are they more like lovers? Roommates? Siblings? Best friends? Frenemies? (I think my own preferred answer is “comedy team”—like Laurel and Hardy, or the Three Stooges, or any number of cartoon character pairings.) > [@](#): > > It was bad enough back in the day. It’s even worse that they’re sticking to it, rather than fixing it by saying it actually doesn’t matter. They should say that it’s okay if you consider them gay, and it’s okay if you don’t. But once they’ve given an answer, to change that answer would be retconning, and to refuse to answer would be playing coy. Now, if they were to add “…Not that there’s anything wrong with that” to their answer, that would be just fine. IMHO, fictional characters are who and what their creators say they are. If J. K. Rowling says Dumbledore is gay, he’s gay. If Arthur Conan Doyle had conceived of Holmes and Watson as lovers, they would be (he didn’t, by the way). If Jim Henson and Frank Oz had designed Ernie and Bert as a gay couple, that’s what they’d be. They didn’t, so in my mind that settles it. I ran across this article: [The fight over Sesame Street’s Bert and Ernie as a gay couple, explained](https://www.vox.com/2018/9/19/17877146/bert-and-ernie-gay-history-controversy-explained). Among other things, it mentions the\* Odd Couple\* comparison that I speculated about earlier: > [@](#): > > Created in 1969 — they were the only original Muppets to debut with Sesame Street’s original pilot — Bert and Ernie seem to have been clearly modeled off Neil Simon’s famous Odd Couple, Oscar and Felix, who were tremendously popular and had permeated the culture in the ’60s. > > Longtime Muppeteer Eric Jacobson, who has played Bert since 1997, has gone on record as saying he believes The Odd Couple was the inspiration for Bert and Ernie. He used this as a reason to dispute their implied queerness (“If you know the genesis of the characters, it’s an absurd idea”), but it should be noted that Bert and Ernie appeared on the scene a year before the television version of The Odd Couple, which was noted for its queer subtext and sexual ambiguity. (with a [link](http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2004/05/odd_man_out.html) that **Arkcon** might find interesting). I also read the [Wikipedia article on Bert and Ernie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_and_Ernie), which notes that “the relationship between Bert and Ernie reflected the real-life friendship between Henson and Oz.” Also: > [@](#): > > The age of the characters is unclear. Sesame Street Live performer Taylor Morgan said in an interview that “I just kind of try to think like a 6-year-old or a 7-year-old, because that’s how old Bert is.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/32 "2018-09-20T18:37:48Z")
Too late to edit: I do think it’s okay if people want to think of them as a gay couple. But I don’t think there’s anything “official” about that. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/33 "2018-09-21T00:45:30Z")
When it comes to Bert and Ernie’s ages, I always think back to [this sketch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPemP-Q0Xn8)\*, where it’s implied neither of them have been to school yet. \*Some great banter in this one ---
**Author:** ![stosh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@stosh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stosh)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/34 "2018-09-21T01:26:28Z")
Spoiler alert…Bert and Ernie are “not” real. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/35 "2018-09-21T01:55:02Z")
> [@BobBitchin](#): > > Their universe, their rules.:rolleyes: > > So it appears Ms. Piggy is a nypho with a kink for inter-species froggy bangin…😃 > > and Bert and Ernie are non sexed adult humanoids who share a bedroom.:smack::D:D > It makes very little sense, and I am completely cool with that. ;)🙂 No, it makes plenty of sense. The puppet characters of The Muppet Show were mostly adults, with adult problems and sexual desires. For example, Animal would often chase after a pretty guest start while shouting “Woman. Woman. Woooman!” The puppet characters of Sesame Street are children- or something very like children. Elmo might think the princess in Cinderelmo is pretty. He might want to dance with her. But he’s just a tot. **FTG** Exactly. A writer may have written Bert and Ernie as a gay couple. That view was never endorsed. That writer was not involved in the creation of either character. **Stosh** Two questions #1 Why do you hate fun? #2 What does that have to do with anything? There are plenty of fictional characters with cannonical sexual desires and identities. Back To The OP I don’t see this as a ‘The Gays are evil!’ issue. I see it as a nerd fan detail issue. The actor who played Gark on Star Trek Deep Space Nine said he always envisioned Garak as bisexual and open to a romance with Julian Bashir. As a fan of the show, I think that would have been great. But, it was never official. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/36 "2018-09-21T03:24:40Z")
Well, if you check out Frank Oz’s [Twitter account](https://twitter.com/thefrankozjam?lang=en), the poor guy’s getting slammed as a homophobe, even though he’s trying his best to be polite and diplomatic. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/37 "2018-09-21T13:42:09Z")
The claim that they are Muppets and don’t have an orientation is stupid. Cite: Kermit and Miss Piggy. Bert and Ernie are more human-like than them. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/38 "2018-09-21T14:55:30Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > The claim that they are Muppets and don’t have an orientation is stupid. Cite: Kermit and Miss Piggy. > > Bert and Ernie are more human-like than them. Again, that’s The Muppet Show. Characters on TMS are adults with sexual/romantic feelings. The puppet characters on Sesame Street are pre-sexual. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/39 "2018-09-21T17:07:38Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Again, that’s The Muppet Show. Characters on TMS are adults with sexual/romantic feelings. > > The puppet characters on Sesame Street are pre-sexual. Kermit _is_ a [character](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kermit+sesame+street) on _Sesame Street_. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556/40 "2018-09-21T18:36:18Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Kermit _is_ a [character](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kermit+sesame+street) on _Sesame Street_. I am aware of that. But, they’re two very different Kermits. Batman was in both The SuperFriends and Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns. They’re two very different Bat (would it be Batmans or Batmen?). Kermit of The Muppet Show was unlikely to stop and explain what sound a letter M makes. Kermit of Sesame Street is equally unlikely to express romantic/sexual interest in Miss Piggy or anybody else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-and-ernie-still-not-gay/821556.md?page=3)