# Bert from Sesame Street and Osama bin Laden? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 10, 2001, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672 "2001-10-10T22:09:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/1 "2001-10-10T22:09:04Z")
Read [this](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,36218,00.html), and check out the photo. It seems that at one of the pro-Osama rallies in Bangladesh, a banner with a montage of bin Laden headshots (now there’s a happiness-inducing thought) inexplicably includes the mug of **Bert from Sesame Street**. A possible explanation is that the banner-maker was pulling Osama shots from off the Internet, and got one from [this website](http://www.spacecat.com/bert/bert.htm), dedicated to the premise that the irascible Bert is provably evil. Perhaps we should have been suspicious about things other than the sexual orientation of Sesame Street’s most irritable bachelor … These are strange times we are living in, folks. ---
**Author:** ![tapioca\_tundra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@tapioca\_tundra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapioca_tundra)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/2 "2001-10-10T22:28:20Z")
Sesame Street as a WHOLE was nothing but evil. the COUNT scared me the “one, two, three, FOUR-FIVE, six, seven, eight, NINE-TEN, eleven, twelve” thing scared me the crack in the wall thing REALLY SCARED ME when you think back, it does seem like BERT was up to something we’ll just have to see how this plays out ---
**Author:** ![KeithT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@KeithT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KeithT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/3 "2001-10-10T23:09:16Z")
It’s already being discussed here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=92290](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=92290) ---
**Author:** ![Persephone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@Persephone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Persephone)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/4 "2001-10-10T23:44:45Z")
The link in the other thread takes you to a picture that’s now been edited, though. Bert’s not in it. **Milo’s** link, on the other hand, still has Bert. That is one of the strangest things I’ve ever seen. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Hooteewho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cc9497/32.png) [@Hooteewho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooteewho)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/5 "2001-10-11T03:31:56Z")
Saw a link of [http://www.snopes2.com](http://www.snopes2.com) regarding this today…a good read. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/6 "2001-10-11T03:40:44Z")
I wonder what/was the poster creators thought Bert is …? ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/7 "2001-10-11T03:41:56Z")
Gah! “I wonder what/who the poster creators thought Bert is …?” Double Gah!! ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/8 "2001-10-11T04:23:00Z")
actually it isn’t from the Bert is Evil site… that guy said that he wouldn’t post that image (though it was sent to him). ---
**Author:** ![Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ebca7d/32.png) [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/9 "2001-10-11T04:37:27Z")
I’ll be damned! 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/10 "2001-10-11T11:31:49Z")
This is how the Taliban and Bin Laden will be brought down – in an enormous copyright infringement suit filed by the Children’s Television Workshop. ---
**Author:** ![aegypt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@aegypt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aegypt)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/11 "2001-10-11T11:49:47Z")
It’s from the very first page of results in Google for an image search on Osama Bin Laden: [http://images.google.com/images?q=osama+bin+laden&hl=en&sa=N&tab=gi](http://images.google.com/images?q=osama+bin+laden&hl=en&sa=N&tab=gi) Third row, on the right. Originally from [http://www.madmark.homestead.com](http://www.madmark.homestead.com). ---
**Author:** ![Why\_A\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Why\_A\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Why_A_Duck)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/12 "2001-10-11T12:19:43Z")
The best part this story is that given how these hardcore extremists feel about women, pregnant women, Americans, anyone _not_ them, I can only imagine how OBL would react if he found out that his supporters are waving around a poster of him next to an American puppet of allegedly-homosexual orientation. He would probably feel like Falwell if his supporters were carrying pictures of him next to Tinky-Winky I imagine. ---
**Author:** ![aegypt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@aegypt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aegypt)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/13 "2001-10-11T14:01:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pcubed \* > \*\*The best part this story is that given how these hardcore extremists feel about women, pregnant women, Americans, anyone _not_ them, I can only imagine how OBL would react if he found out that his supporters are waving around a poster of him next to an American puppet of allegedly-homosexual orientation. > > He would probably feel like Falwell if his supporters were carrying pictures of him next to Tinky-Winky I imagine. \*\* Osama, as a Muslim fundamentalist, would probably dislike to appear in the same picture as a Muppet. IIRC, the Quran teaches that on the last day, all those who have fashioned a likeness of one of Allah’s creatures will wake up surrounded by their creations. Allah will then command them to breath life into these creations, and when they fail, throw them into Hell - which explains why puppet shows are about as popular among the Taliban as death metal is among Christian fundies. Hmmm. A thought just struck me. While I’m pretty certain that images, statues etc. are usually taken to be forbidden by fundamentalist practioners of Islam, that didn’t seem to stop the protesters in Pakistan from making dolls of Bush and Blair. **Muslim Guy** , could you explain? ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/14 "2001-10-11T14:06:07Z")
The picture is on a number of news sites but Bert has mysteriously disappeared from most of the posters. He is a truly slippery little evil genius. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/15 "2001-10-11T14:47:18Z")
> [@](#): > > This is how the Taliban and Bin Laden will be brought down – in an enormous copyright infringement suit filed by the Children’s Television Workshop. I think it would be hilarious if Seasame Street brought down one of the greatest terrorist masterminds ever. Take that, hater of American culture! ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/16 "2001-10-11T15:02:51Z")
Fiction has some catching up to do. ---
**Author:** ![Godfrey\_Daniels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Godfrey\_Daniels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Godfrey_Daniels)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/17 "2001-10-11T17:05:53Z")
Unreal! I would give anything to see Osama’s reaction if this is explained to him! Bizarre, indeed! ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/18 "2001-10-11T17:18:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Hmmm. A thought just struck me. While I’m pretty certain that images, statues etc. are usually taken to be forbidden by fundamentalist practioners of Islam, that didn’t seem to stop the protesters in Pakistan from making dolls of Bush and Blair. Muslim Guy, could you explain? Does this also pertain to video images? I seem to have heard that the Taliban has banned television and radio as “evil”, yet Bin Laden made a videotape message just before the military strike on 10/7. How do they reconcile making a video image? ---
**Author:** ![Alzarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@Alzarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alzarian)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/19 "2001-10-11T17:36:42Z")
It’s interesting to note that Bert is not mentioned as one of the top 22 terrorists this administration is out to bring down, but the photo does seem to point to their being a link between Bert and Osama. I have no doubt that the CIA is even now sequestering Bert for some serious interrogation. And if they can’t find him, will we have a bombing of Sesame Street? Surely the US government won’t stoop as to bomb our own territory, but can’t you just see them storming the street? I imagine there will at least be a visible National Guard presence seen in future episodes. And lest we forget, Bert is still a threat while remains free. He consorts with passenger pigeons, the very pigeons which may be used to communicate stealthily with Osama. I have yet to figure how oatmeal and bottlecaps play into this conspiracy, but Bert is a threat to the free world, or so it would appear… ---
**Author:** ![aegypt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@aegypt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aegypt)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bert-from-sesame-street-and-osama-bin-laden/86672/20 "2001-10-11T18:13:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DAVEW0071 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Hmmm. A thought just struck me. While I’m pretty certain that images, statues etc. are usually taken to be forbidden by fundamentalist practioners of Islam, that didn’t seem to stop the protesters in Pakistan from making dolls of Bush and Blair. Muslim Guy, could you explain? > > Does this also pertain to video images? I seem to have heard that the Taliban has banned television and radio as “evil”, yet Bin Laden made a videotape message just before the military strike on 10/7. How do they reconcile making a video image? \*\* Curiously, no. Photography and moving images are usually excluded from the rule. Dolls are, however, _verboten_, so I assume making a fluffy doll of Osama bin Laden would make him balk. The following is from a Usenet post by somebody who uses the signature “Shahid” (I am not a Muslim, and I can’t say how representative his views are - he is probably more moderate than the Taliban): > [@](#): > > A number of Hadiths are quoted which make it clear that it is forbidden > to create a likeness of Allah’s living creation. Among the most telling > of these are a sacred or Qudsi Hadith and a statement by the Prophet. In > the sacred or Qudsi Hadith, the Prophet quotes Allah as saying : “Who > does a greater sin than one who tries to create something like My > creation. Let them create a particle or a seed or a barley seed.” > (Related by Al-Bukhari and Muslim). The authentic statement by the > Prophet quotes him as saying: “Those who endure the most grievance or > suffering on the Day of Resurrection are the ones who create a > likeness.” (Related by Al-Bukhari and Muslim). In many of these Hadiths, > the Arabic word used for the “creation of a likeness” is the same as we > use today for photography. Hence, some scholars have tended to pronounce > photography as forbidden on the basis of these Hadiths. However, > photography was invented long after the Prophet and, therefore, it is > not possible that these Hadiths refer to photography unless there was > some technique at the time of the Prophet which was used to create > photos in the same way as a camera does. Since there was none, we should > determine what the word signified at that time. > > If we consider how the word is used in the Qur’an, we find that it is > invariably used to denote how Allah creates people, animals and things. > In its original use the word sawara means “to give shape and form.” > Hence, majority of learned scholars are of the view that these Hadiths > refer to sculpture and making statues and shapes and engravings on stone > or wood to create likenesses of Allah’s creation. Hence, there is no > disagreement among scholars that such works are forbidden not only to > produce, but also to buy, possess or display. > > Photography does not enter into that. The late Sheikh Muhammad Bakheet, > a former Mufti of Egypt, has made it clear that photography is not > included in such prohibition. He states that this art is no more than > capturing a shade or a reflection by special technique. He clarifies > that what is forbidden is to create a likeness which has no previous > existence in order to produce something like what Allah has created. > Using a camera to take a picture is similar to fixing what we see in a > mirror. No one says that looking into mirror is forbidden because it > shows a likeness of Allah’s creation. We use lenses in cameras in order > to capture a mirror picture of the person or the object for which we > need a photo. This is perfectly legitimate. > > The same applies to using a video camera because it does no more than > taking a large number of still pictures which, when shown rapidly, > create the image of movement. > > Having said that, I should add that the purpose for which the photos and > videos are used is certainly significant in arriving at a ruling > concerning them. We can, therefore, conclude that the likenesses, > whether shaped or painted which carry the strictest prohibition are > those which have for their objects persons or other creatures whom some > people worship, such as the statues of Jesus Christ. Such likenesses are > forbidden to make, sell or own or to photograph. Similarly, statues of > people who are not worshipped but are given a position of majesty are > also forbidden. All statues and sculpture work are forbidden as well > unless they are treated as toys for children. Paintings of people who > are glorified are forbidden to hang, particularly if they are paintings > of dictators, unjust rulers, atheists or people whose conduct is > anti-Islamic. On the other hand, paintings of natural scenery are > permissible. Photographs are permissible to start with, unless they are > photographs of someone or something which is forbidden. Take, for > example, a person who is worshipped by his followers or glorified in an > exaggerated way. To have his photograph hung on the wall as a sign of > respect is forbidden, particularly if he is a disbeliever or an atheist. > For example, Communists glorify Lenin and have his picture everywhere. > It is forbidden for a Muslim to display a photograph of Lenin, because > Lenin was a man who denied the existence of Allah and who sought to > replace religion with a creed of his own. The applicable Quran quotes can be found [here](http://muttaqun.com/pictures.html). 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