# Besides QB, who can you build an NFL team around? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 11, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914 "2010-08-11T05:12:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/21 "2010-08-12T15:39:37Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > With Barry the Lions made the playoffs or contested. Without him. Check the record. OK, I checked the record. Barry Sanders played 10 seasons for the Lions (1989-1998). In those 10 seasons, the Lions’ overall record was 4 games below .500 (78 winds, 82 losses). In four of those ten seasons, the Lions lost at least 10 games. In what were, arguably, Sanders’ three best seasons (1994, 1996, 1997), the Lions’ combined record was 23-25. They made the playoffs five times in Sanders’ 10 seasons. Their overall playoff record during that span was 1-5. Wayne Fontes was the Lions’ coach through most of that time. It seemed like, in most of those playoff years, the Lions would start the season terribly, and then rally enough to make the playoffs, and save Fontes’ job for another season. I had said that the Lions “weren’t a particularly good team” during Sanders’ time. A sub-.500 record, and exactly one playoff win? I stand by that. Now, the Lions been _awful_ since Sanders retired…but that’s another story. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/22 "2010-08-12T22:03:38Z")
I still maintain that drafting a franchise QB without any semblance of talent on the offensive line is a wasted and futile enterprise. Better a stout oline and an average QB than the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/23 "2010-08-12T22:23:12Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I still maintain that drafting a franchise QB without any semblance of talent on the offensive line is a wasted and futile enterprise. Agreed. The David Carr syndrome. Or, a generation ago, the Archie Manning syndrome. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/24 "2010-08-13T00:31:23Z")
Yep. I feel bad for Stafford. The kid has got some real talent but I don’t think his career will be long enough to realize it. But then again, Indy had a nice blueprint for doing it with Petyon. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/25 "2010-08-13T01:21:58Z")
barry sanders, walter payton, and jim brown are the easiest to build around, qb or not, imo. i’d take any of those three over peyton, brady, marino, montana, _favre_etc. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/26 "2010-08-13T04:46:16Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > barry sanders, walter payton, and jim brown are the easiest to build around, qb or not, imo. i’d take any of those three over peyton, brady, marino, montana, _favre_etc. Not that championships are a perfect measure, but, interestingly, between those three great running backs, there’s a total of 2 NFL championships (one for Brown, one for Payton). Of those five quarterbacks, only Marino failed to win a championship. Montana and Brady each have won 3, Favre and Manning each have won 1. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/27 "2010-08-17T00:46:33Z")
1. Middle Linebacker 2. Mike Webster or Jack Lambert, it’s a toss-up. 3. Yes, you can build a defense around a defensive player. Think Troy Polamalu or (ugh) Ray Lewis. 4. Linebacker 5. Nose Tackle ---
**Author:** ![TheBoltEater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheBoltEater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoltEater)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/28 "2010-08-18T05:17:07Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I still maintain that drafting a franchise QB without any semblance of talent on the offensive line is a wasted and futile enterprise. Better a stout oline and an average QB than the other way around. If we were drafting for all 32 teams, starting from scratch, with every player in NFL history in the draft pool (and a 53 round draft to fill out our teams), I would think very seriously about drafting O-line with each of my first 5 picks. You give me the greatest offensive line in NFL history, I can win a Super Bowl with barely-top-32 RBs, WRs and QBs. Examples of guys you might get if you took their position LAST in a 32 team draft? QBs - Dan Fouts, Drew Brees, Warren Moon. RBs - Ricky Williams, Marcus Allen, maybe a Steven Jackson? WRs - How about Reggie Wayne, John Jefferson or a James Lofton or Herman Moore? You give me Dan Fouts, Steven Jackson and a WR pair of Reggie Wayne and James Lofton, all operating behind an offensive line giving up no sacks and opening enormous holes in the running game and I like my chances. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/29 "2010-08-22T21:29:24Z")
[quote=“TheBoltEater, post:28, topic:549914”] > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > You give me Dan Fouts, Steven Jackson and a WR pair of Reggie Wayne and James Lofton, all operating behind an offensive line giving up no sacks and opening enormous holes in the running game and I like my chances. Best 5 offensive line never gives up sacks against Deacon Jones, Joe Greene, Warren Sapp (?), and Reggie White? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/30 "2010-08-23T02:06:08Z")
> [@TheBoltEater](#): > > > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > > > I still maintain that drafting a franchise QB without any semblance of talent on the offensive line is a wasted and futile enterprise. Better a stout oline and an average QB than the other way around. > > If we were drafting for all 32 teams, starting from scratch, with every player in NFL history in the draft pool (and a 53 round draft to fill out our teams), I would think very seriously about drafting O-line with each of my first 5 picks. > > You give me the greatest offensive line in NFL history, I can win a Super Bowl with barely-top-32 RBs, WRs and QBs. > > Examples of guys you might get if you took their position LAST in a 32 team draft? QBs - Dan Fouts, Drew Brees, Warren Moon. RBs - Ricky Williams, Marcus Allen, maybe a Steven Jackson? WRs - How about Reggie Wayne, John Jefferson or a James Lofton or Herman Moore? > > You give me Dan Fouts, Steven Jackson and a WR pair of Reggie Wayne and James Lofton, all operating behind an offensive line giving up no sacks and opening enormous holes in the running game and I like my chances. I’m with you. And it doesn’t have to be offense. The right combo of defensive players can also win games. But I’d go oline first every time. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/31 "2010-08-23T03:14:59Z")
> [@Dumbguy](#): > > QB’s are somewhat overrated. Mediocre qb’s like Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, and Eli Manning all won Super Bowls agains considerably better qb’s. Elway lost to Phil Simms and Doug Williams in back to back Super Bowls, and both were record breaking blowouts (I think, the Redskins game definitely was). You can’t build a great team with just a great quarterback, but you can build a decent team with one. You can’t build a great defense without at least two great defensive players. The Patriots won Super Bowls with Ty Law, Richard Seymour, Rodney Harris and a bunch of very-good-but-not-great linebackers. The Steelers won Super Bowls with Troy Polamalu, Casey Hampton, Jerry Porter, and James Harrison. The Buccaneers won a Super Bowl with Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, Simeon Rice, Shelton Quarles and John Lynch. The Colts won a Super Bowl with Peyton Manning. Nobody else on that team was a top-five player at his position. ---
**Author:** ![fjs1fs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@fjs1fs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fjs1fs)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/32 "2010-08-24T14:17:43Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@Dumbguy](#): > > > > I’d also take Lawrence Taylor. > > Screw Lawrence Taylor and felony indictment for the thing with the child hooker. Even had that not happened, Rickey Jackson was every bit as good, with less attitude. > > Not sure I’d build a team from the defense that way, but if I had to do it, and I get one all timer, it’s #57 all the way. LOL, Rickey Jackson as good as LT. LOL!!! LT changed the Entire Game! He was the only defensive player that head coaches/OC’s had to Game Plan For! ---
**Author:** ![fjs1fs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@fjs1fs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fjs1fs)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/33 "2010-08-24T14:24:39Z")
The Colts won a Super Bowl with Peyton Manning. Nobody else on that team was a top-five player at his position. [/QUOTE] Really? Dallas Clark, Jeff Saturday, Reggie Wayne, Bob Sanders (Defensive Player of the year in Super Bowl Year, including a huge role in the SB) Nice Try. the bottom line is that Football is a Team Game. Manning has been touched less than any other QB in the history of the game, and it’s not because of his mobility. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/34 "2010-08-24T15:14:04Z")
Sorry - that should have said nobody else on that offense was a top-five player at his position. Saturday, maybe, but he’s undersized and not athletic. His value to the Colts has always been leadership. I had forgotten that Marvin Harrison was still on the team during the 2006-2007 season, and I’ll certainly give you _him_ as a top-5 player. However, Sanders didn’t go to the Pro Bowl that year, and neither did Dallas Clark. Wayne, Harrison, Jeff Saturday, Manning and Tarik Glenn did. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/35 "2010-08-24T16:39:13Z")
Yeah, I’ll have to say middle linebacker. Or maybe left offensive tackle. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914/36 "2010-08-29T07:43:30Z")
I’d build around QB, LT, or NT, in that order. Give me a Kris Jenkins or a motivated Albert Haynesworth to build around and I’d be pretty happy. If I could put any historical player in his prime on the Giants of today, of course I would pick Lawrence Taylor. The Jints need linebackers bad. > [@Dumbguy](#): > > QB’s are somewhat overrated. Mediocre qb’s like Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, and Eli Manning all won Super Bowls agains considerably better qb’s. I know people love to bash Eli Manning, but mediocre? Put down the haterade. At the absolute minimum he’s good. I personally think he’s closer to very good. Keep in mind that in 2007, Tom Brady was considerably better than every other QB who ever played the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/besides-qb-who-can-you-build-an-nfl-team-around/549914.md?page=1)