# Best advocate of church-state separation... Satanists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-advocate-of-church-state-separation-satanists/745415 "2016-02-07T15:20:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-advocate-of-church-state-separation-satanists/745415/1 "2016-02-07T15:20:29Z")
So the Satanic Temple [challenged the Phoenix city council](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/02/05/how-the-satanic-temple-forced-phoenix-lawmakers-to-ban-public-prayer/?tid=sm_fb) to allow them to offer a public prayer before city council meetings, since they have Christian prayers before the meeting. The city council responded by _eliminating the prayers entirely_ for a moment of silence. IIRC, Satanists have done this before – demanding space for Christmas imagery when the city provides Christians space, offering free Satanic religious material to schools when public schools offer students free Christian-provided religious material, and other “equal time/space” demands, which usually seem to lead to eliminating the religious policy altogether (probably their goal). I think this is great. Government shouldn’t be promoting any religion, or religion vs non-religion. Any negatives? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-advocate-of-church-state-separation-satanists/745415/2 "2016-02-07T15:21:39Z")
Modern Satanists are just religion trolls, good on them. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-advocate-of-church-state-separation-satanists/745415/3 "2016-02-07T15:32:04Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Modern Satanists are just religion trolls, good on them. Agreed. If the government is founded on secularism and the premise that all religions are equal, then they should uphold those principles when put to the test. Offering the right of religious observance only to the majority religion exposes their hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-advocate-of-church-state-separation-satanists/745415/4 "2016-02-07T16:33:00Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Modern Satanists are just religion trolls, good on them. Dunno if it’s all of them, but certainly this specific group is. From the article: > [@](#): > > Contrary to the name, Satanic Temple members are non-theists who do not believe in the existence of the devil and promote the idea that religion can be divorced from superstition. On its Web site, the Satanic Temple describes its mission as encouraging “benevolence and empathy among all people.” Among the group’s seven tenets: “The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend.” ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-advocate-of-church-state-separation-satanists/745415/5 "2016-02-08T16:27:11Z")
As a Christian, I obviously don’t agree with all of their philosophy, but I approve this particular goal and result. Prayers before government meetings offend me on two levels: First, as an inappropriately sanctioned nod to one specific religion over another - a run-around the ban on government established religion. As if we tolerate Jews and Muslims and atheists, but they’re not really one of us. But secondly, nothing offends me more than a committee meeting that starts with a Christian prayer and ends with the defunding of programs for the poor, or worse. Don’t try to pretend you have a thumbs-up from Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-advocate-of-church-state-separation-satanists/745415/6 "2016-02-08T17:28:30Z")
Heh, first time I see that devil’s advocates are being literal. 🙂 Of course, this being ASU territory, I was wondering if this is their lair: - [http://devilstempe.com/](http://devilstempe.com/) 😃 - Yes, seriously, because the team is “The Sun Devil’s” a local bar is called the “Devil’s Advocate” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-advocate-of-church-state-separation-satanists/745415/7 "2016-02-08T17:31:35Z")
> [@TheSeaOtter](#): > > Dunno if it’s all of them, but certainly this specific group is. From the article: When we hear “Satanism,” most of us who have any reaction more sophisticated than :eek: tend to think of Anton Szandor LaVey’s Church of Satan – and if you study its online lit, you’ll find those Satanists don’t really worship or believe in Satan; they worship themselves, and “Satan” is just a pet-name they give their own egos. LaVey described his church as “Ayn Rand with trappings.” ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-advocate-of-church-state-separation-satanists/745415/8 "2016-02-08T17:33:27Z")
I agree with what the Church is doing and support them 100%. [Here](http://www.salon.com/2015/05/11/satanists_sue_missouri_for_religious_exemption_to_antiabortion_law_religious_liberty_isn%E2%80%99t_theirs_alone/) is a Salon article from May of last year. A member of the Church is suing Missouri over it’s anti-abortion laws being an undue burden on her religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-advocate-of-church-state-separation-satanists/745415/9 "2016-02-08T17:55:58Z")
Satanists are also responsible for Oklahoma’s decision to remove the 10 commandment display at the State Capitol building. It was either that, or allow the Satanist’s statue, as well. > **[Oklahoma Removes Ten Commandments on Capitol Grounds, Which Sadly Also Means...](https://jezebel.com/oklahoma-removes-ten-commandments-on-capitol-grounds-w-1735155450)** > > Well, darn. Under an order from the Oklahoma Supreme Court, a very large crane came Tuesday night and removed an enormous Ten Commandments monument from the grounds of the Oklahoma State Capitol. Tragically, this also means that the Satanic Temple... Cool pic of the Satanist’s statue: [http://thesatanictempledetroit.com/campaigns/national-campaigns/oklahoma-city-monument/](http://thesatanictempledetroit.com/campaigns/national-campaigns/oklahoma-city-monument/) God bless Satanists! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-advocate-of-church-state-separation-satanists/745415/10 "2016-02-08T18:22:58Z")
The activities book is here: [‘The Satanic Children’s Big Book of Activities’ is actually pretty cute | Dangerous Minds](http://dangerousminds.net/comments/the_satanic_childrens_big_book_of_activities_is_actually_pretty_cute)