# Best arguments to convert voters to Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857 "2004-08-27T22:25:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/1 "2004-08-27T22:25:03Z")
In the spirit of [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=273156), what arguments can be used to convince moderates to vote for Bush? Some I can think of: - Bush does what he believes needs to be done, whether it’s popular or not. - As a Republican, he would be very much inclined to support strategic efforts to bolster security and stability at home and abroad. - He understands the need for America to be involved abroad, as unpopular as it may be here and abroad. This need is not only for America’s sake but also for the sake of other oppressed people. - The exegiences of the current state of the world necessitate the use of unpopular measures, programs, and policies. Bush is not afraid to stick to his guns (in many senses of the metaphor). - As a Republican president, the Executive Branch operates through the President’s Cabinet - they determine policy, really, with the President making major decisions and acting as a figurehead. This means people who know their thing are involved in decision-making, rather than some charismatic/popular/populist figure calling the shots. - At least Bush stands for something, unlike Kerry who says what people want to hear so they’ll elect him. - Better the evil we know than the evil we don’t. I don’t want to debate the above (unless they’re not worded in the most appealing fashion). What else may be said to sway voters to vote for Bush? WRS ---
**Author:** ![MrTuffPaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/2 "2004-08-27T23:18:23Z")
Well with reasons like that, people are going to laugh at you. How about: There has not been a terrorist attack on American soil since 9-11 He tried to out law partial birth abortions and stopped government funding of stem cell research. (only applies to the far right swing voters 😉 ) He sent two tax refunds back to the people. Uh, other than that, it is pretty slim unless you start counting owning pickup trucks as a plus. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/3 "2004-08-27T23:36:00Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > In the spirit of [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=273156), what arguments can be used to convince moderates to vote for Bush? > > Some I can think of: > > - Bush does what he believes needs to be done, whether it’s popular or not. > - As a Republican, he would be very much inclined to support strategic efforts to bolster security and stability at home and abroad. > - He understands the need for America to be involved abroad, as unpopular as it may be here and abroad. This need is not only for America’s sake but also for the sake of other oppressed people. > - The exegiences of the current state of the world necessitate the use of unpopular measures, programs, and policies. Bush is not afraid to stick to his guns (in many senses of the metaphor). > - As a Republican president, the Executive Branch operates through the President’s Cabinet - they determine policy, really, with the President making major decisions and acting as a figurehead. This means people who know their thing are involved in decision-making, rather than some charismatic/popular/populist figure calling the shots. > - At least Bush stands for something, unlike Kerry who says what people want to hear so they’ll elect him. > - Better the evil we know than the evil we don’t. > > WRS BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…oh, cripes, what a great put-on. But shouldn’t this be in the Pit? Oh…you’re serious? Day-am… ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/4 "2004-08-27T23:41:20Z")
I remember that NPR ran an interview with Commentator Ken Adelman, who labels Bush as a progressive, which gave some good talking points. from [here:](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119779,00.html) > [@](#): > > Years ago, leadership scholar James McGregor Burns made a telling distinction between transactional leaders — those who keep their desks clean and react to staff papers — and transformational leaders — those who direct their staffs and fundamentally flip the whole debate. Transactional leaders seek office to be someone. Transformational leaders seek office to do something. And that “something” is sure not the way it’s being done now. > > President Bush’s merging conservative ideology with transformational leadership is rather remarkable. Most conservative leaders are, well, conservative in approach. Now I noticed he is a commentator from FOX news which I gather has a low standing on this board. Also, I don’t know Ken Adelman from Adam, I don’t watch television and can’t comment on that one way or another, but his essay does bring up some interesting points. When I googled his name and story I found lots of sites that were critical of this piece. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/5 "2004-08-27T23:58:47Z")
Until I finished reading your post I thought you were just _spoofing_ the pro Bush camp… ---
**Author:** ![bughunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@bughunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bughunter)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/6 "2004-08-28T00:07:40Z")
Well, the problem is, Bush isn’t a moderate’s candidate. He himself is a fundamentalist evangelical christian, and therefore when he sets his own policy that is his moral guide. He has surrounded himself with neoconservative radical right wingers with respect to foreign policy, and socially ultraconservative executives and advisors on the domestic side. That’s why the only “positive” campaign tactics he could use in 2000 were “I’m a uniter, not a divider,” and “I will change the tone in Washington,” and “No Child Left Behind.” And he’s still trying to use at least one of them. The rest of his positive campaign themes this year all center around his qualifications to lead the country “in a time of war.” And still, most of the time his camp talks about this, they’re insinuating that Kerry is _not_ qualified. The only other things he has in his arsenal to use on moderates, progressives, and the rare undecided liberal are _fear_ and _smear_. And after four years (and even longer if you count the post-Gingrich Congress during Clinton’s term) most of us are tired of fear and smear. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/7 "2004-08-28T00:08:32Z")
He changed overtime rules, so those greedy moneygrubbing workers won’t have to pay taxes (on the O/T they will no longer get). He “improved” unemployment - more people are out of work. Ahh, the magic of outsourcing. He streamlined the government by trying to gut any and all protections gove emplyees have. He has made us safer by watching what library books we check out. He got us more involved abroad by starting a war based on false premises, and is now stuck with no exit plan. Now the “blame” is on the military… they won too fast and Bush wasn’t ready for that. Also on being more involved, he has successfully infuriated and alienated just about every ally we had and probably several neutral countries also. He does what needs to be done, as in getting daddy and friends to “appoint” him to the “Champagne unit” of the National Guard, at which time he decided not to show up. Or as in getting his goons to smear someone (McCain was just one), while he keeps his hands clean. Or as in the Harken deal, getting Daddy’s pals to buy him out when his business deals go bad. Yup, he is our Great Fearless Leader alright. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/8 "2004-08-28T00:11:27Z")
Ok… back. > [@](#): > > - Bush does what he believes needs to be done, whether it’s popular or not. Like those HUGE tax cuts for the rich? They weren’t exactly popular with the less rich (i.e. the majority) > [@](#): > > - As a Republican, he would be very much inclined to support strategic efforts to bolster security and stability at home and abroad. So we blow up Ahmed’s house or shoot his kid and now the _entire_ extended family hates us. > [@](#): > > - He understands the need for America to be involved abroad, as unpopular as it may be here and abroad. This need is not only for America’s sake but also for the sake of other oppressed people. Wait wait… We have oil execs in office that oppose green technology so we require the oil IV from the middle east. We put bases in Saudi Arabia, pissing off OBL and he sends terrorists to kill a few thousand Americans. _Still_ the oil execs are writing the energy policy to help themselves out. > [@](#): > > - The exegiences of the current state of the world necessitate the use of unpopular measures, programs, and policies. Bush is not afraid to stick to his guns (in many senses of the metaphor). - PATRIOT act… Mostly written _before_ 9/11. - War on Iraq. Never killed any Americans nor did he have any WMD. Oh, he was ruthless? How about an evil dictator _WITH_ WMD that we know about? Like N. Korea? > [@](#): > > - As a Republican president, the Executive Branch operates through the President’s Cabinet - they determine policy, really, with the President making major decisions and acting as a figurehead. This means people who know their thing are involved in decision-making, rather than some charismatic/popular/populist figure calling the shots. Oh yeah, I forgot about how the Democrats subcontract all duties out to movie stars. > [@](#): > > - At least Bush stands for something, unlike Kerry who says what people want to hear so they’ll elect him. I’m not saying he’s exactly as evil as this example, but Hitler stood for something too. > [@](#): > > - Better the evil we know than the evil we don’t. Progress… Things arn’t good… Lets not vote in a guy who might _do_ something else that _might_ work. > [@](#): > > I don’t want to debate the above (unless they’re not worded in the most appealing fashion). PLEEEEEASEE! 😉 [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/9 "2004-08-28T00:24:58Z")
I saw a pro-Bush advert. a while ago, the substance (so to speak) of which was “Bush is an optimist. Kerry is not. Vote for Bush.” I guess I can see how optimism would be a good quality in a leader, as long as it’s not a completely irrational level of optimism. It’s not a terribly stringent criterion, one’s tendency to be upbeat, but it’s a standard voters appear to care about, or the Bush campaign wouldn’t harp on it. I can’t really think of anything else to add. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/10 "2004-08-28T00:49:09Z")
To respond to the OP in the spirit in which I assume it was made: Just about every one of your points is incrediably slanted, subject to opinion (and in some cases to facts to the contrary) and lacking in actual substance. They’re good propoganda pieces to excite folks who already support the guy; they’re not going to convince anyone who hasn’t made up his or her mind. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/11 "2004-08-28T01:27:48Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t want to debate the above (unless they’re not worded in the most appealing fashion). What else may be said to sway voters to vote for Bush? Well, I feel compelled to comment on the OP’s list anyway, but first I’ll try to state the arguments in favor as objectively as possible. 1. Organized a military response to the 9/11 attacks that, at least until the adminstration launched its bizarre vendetta against Iraq, was reasonably effective. 2. Has taken some steps toward increasing domestic security; I will leave the question as to whether the adminstration has done all it can, or done it most effectively, for another thread. 3. Has, at least in the short term, reduced taxes for some of the population (proably not those most in need of tax reduction, and I would have to be convinced that this is entirely a Good Thing, but I can see the appeal to the casual voter). 4. The administration may have taken steps to improve education, although I’m afraid I don’t know enough about initiatives like NCLB to judge on this point. 5. Has made what seems a reasonable, but ineffective (at least so far) attempt to resolve the endless Israel-Palestinian conflict. Since I’m not enough of a wonk to follow every little thing the Admin. has doen over the past four years, that’s pretty much it. OTOH, the OP makes a number of assumptions about what voters find attractive that would require considerably more factual support before I could accept them as valid: > [@](#): > > Bush does what he believes needs to be done, whether it’s popular or not. Why should I invariably support a President who completely ignores the wishes of a large percentage of the population? > [@](#): > > - As a Republican, he would be very much inclined to support strategic efforts to bolster security and stability at home and abroad. Well, I have yet to see evidence that the current administration has done better than any other in this regard, or that Republican administrations in general are better at this than any other. > [@](#): > > - He understands the need for America to be involved abroad, as unpopular as it may be here and abroad. This need is not only for America’s sake but also for the sake of other oppressed people. With the sole exceptions of the military engagments in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the sputtering ‘Road Map’ initiative, I know of no general enthusiasm within the administration to be involved abroad anywhere outside of its existing commitments. I would have to call this administration the least interested in general foreign affairs that I can recall, going back to Eisenhower’s tenure . I will happily stand corrected if someone can point out some policies or programs that I missed. > [@](#): > > - The exegiences of the current state of the world necessitate the use of unpopular measures, programs, and policies. Bush is not afraid to stick to his guns (in many senses of the metaphor). Meaningless statement, unless one further defines ‘The exigiences of the current state of the world’. > [@](#): > > - As a Republican president, the Executive Branch operates through the President’s Cabinet - they determine policy, really, with the President making major decisions and acting as a figurehead. This means people who know their thing are involved in decision-making, rather than some charismatic/popular/populist figure calling the shots. Nothing special here. Firstly, a large number of Bush supporters seem to have practically developed a cult of personality for their revered leader. Furthermore, there is not the slightest thing about the above statement that could not be said of any presidential administration, at least since the Depression era. > [@](#): > > - At least Bush stands for something, unlike Kerry who says what people want to hear so they’ll elect him. Again, without factual support, I have no reason to accept the implied claim that ‘Kerry stands for nothing’ is true. Of course, the real question is whether I, as a voter, find what Bush claims to stand for to be in my best interest. In this case I must say that it does not. > [@](#): > > - Better the evil we know than the evil we don’t. Really? So all US presidents should assume office for life? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/12 "2004-08-28T01:56:00Z")
“Vote for Bush or go to Gitmo!” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/13 "2004-08-28T02:22:59Z")
It’s easy to paint yourself as “a war president” or a “war leader” if you started the damn war to begin with. So where are the WMD? Where are them newkewlar thingamajigs? What the hell did Iraq and Saddam (who hates bin Laden) have to do with saving anyone from bin Laden? Where the hell is bin Laden (we had a pretty good cowboy speech about huntin the varmint down and bringin him to justice but where the hell is he)? Was he too smart to get caught, or was the entire US too damn incompetent to find him? For conspiracy fans, did we NOT want to find him? As for optmism, screw that. Optimism comes easy, with enough liquor, and Bush has a more than passing acquaintance with booze and other things. I prefer a sober realist. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/14 "2004-08-28T02:46:10Z")
The list strikes me as a good argument _not_ to vote for Bush. “Four more years of the same bull-headed stupidity that got us into this mess? Hell no!” ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/15 "2004-08-28T03:32:21Z")
“If you like the taste of a cold shit sandwich and the warm fuzzy feeling of your civil liberties being inserted into your rectum, the choice is clear! Bush/Cheney '04!” ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/16 "2004-08-28T04:15:47Z")
If one is not originally reasoned into a position… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/17 "2004-08-28T04:26:20Z")
Conditions that _might_ persuade me to think about voting for Bush would have to include all of the following: [ul][li]A radical shift in policy which would include a constitutional amendment stating that rights of marriage between any two consenting adults, regardless of gender, will not be abridged, an expression of full support for legal abortion on demand for any reason or no reason at any point in pregnancy, a humongous tax hike on the rich, socialized health care, education and child care, complete decriminalization of all drugs, the elimination of the FCC and drastic overhauls in environmental policies as well as creating programs and task forces to work on the problems of global warming and to develop alternative energy sources to fossil fuels. These programs would be funded by appropriating masive amounts of rich people’s money (as St. Jerome once said, “all rich people are either thieves or the heirs of thieves”).[/li] [li]A constitutional amendment prohibiting capital punishment as well as a commutation of all prisoners currently on death row to life without parole (or until the DNA tests come back).[/li] [li]John Ashcroft must be fired and replaced with either Janet Reno or Hillary Clinton.[/li] [li]Rumsfeld must be replaced with John McCain.[/li] [li]Bill Clinton must be appointed as Secretary of State.[/li] [li]Dick Cheney must resign pending a criminal investigation for his involvement with Halliburton and with the Valarie Plame scandal.[/li] [li]Al Franken must replace Dick Cheney as Vice President.[/li] [li]One billion dollars, tax free, must be direct deposited to my bank account.[/li] [li]A three way for me with the Bush twins. (This one is negotiable. You should always ask for more than you think you’re going to get. I could be persuaded to settle for Anna Kournikova) [/ul][/li] I’m not even really kidding that much. This actually is about what it would take for me to vote Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/18 "2004-08-28T04:29:41Z")
I think you’re gonna have a tough time getting Al Franken the VP spot. I mean, dude, get real. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/19 "2004-08-28T06:51:20Z")
Because you don’t really want someone who’ll admit he’s made a mistake and fix it, do you? Because we’ve just got too many damn civil liberties. Because your neighborhood millionaire hasn’t gotten a new yacht this year. Because it’s more heroic to have the entire world against us than to have to work with the UN. Because inflaming the passions of the entire Muslim world can only be a good thing. Because religious fundamentalism should be US policy. Because we don’t really need a President who’ll accept accountability, for anything. Because having an effective public speaker is just something those pinko over-educated liberals want. Because, honestly, who cares about the whole ‘environment’ deal? Because Americans really don’t care about health care. Because they also really don’t care about finding good jobs. Because we’re safer than we ever have been, and it’s an orange alert. Because he scares both our enemies and our friends. Because we are all tired of this damn ‘fiscally responsible’ bullshit. Because his low level of intelligence can lure our enemies into a trap, which Dick Cheny or Donald Rumsfeld can then spring on them. Because he failed at every business endeavor he ever undertook, we’ve gotta give him another chance so he can keep his self esteem up. Because otherwise Faux News won’t have anybody to tell them what to put on the air. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857/20 "2004-08-28T12:12:19Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > If one is not originally reasoned into a position… This is in the wrong thread. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-arguments-to-convert-voters-to-bush/261857.md?page=2)