# Best athlete not in his/her sport's Hall of Fame? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 24, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351 "2014-08-24T04:46:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/1 "2014-08-24T04:46:09Z")
I was wondering about this question, in order to get a sense of what it takes to be elite in whatever sport. Assume eligibility, of course, and exclude those kept out because of clear “external” circumstances, like Pete Rose. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/2 "2014-08-24T05:04:54Z")
dont understand the question. “beat” athlete? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/3 "2014-08-24T05:09:07Z")
Yes, yes, I asked the mods to correct that already. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/4 "2014-08-24T05:21:31Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Yes, yes, I asked the mods to correct that already. _sigh_ you meant best? well, for boxing it would have to include a list of people you beat, not just total wins. i guess for team sports they would have to look at the opposite, were you a good quarterback but on a team that couldn’t afford a good offensive line? or were you a marginally good quarterback blessed with superstar line and superstar receivers… ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/5 "2014-08-24T16:58:38Z")
Apparently, I’m the only person that thinks Ricky Watters should be in the NFL HoF. I’ll have to check his numbers to be sure, but he’s the first person I thought of. I remember he was a nightmare to handle. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/6 "2014-08-24T19:09:41Z")
Pete Rose wasn’t really “external.” He bet _on baseball_, while still active in the sport. So he deserves to be banned for life plus. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/7 "2014-08-24T19:32:03Z")
I would say Bo jackson was the best athlete not to be in the football hall of fame. He certainly would have made it had his career not been cut short. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/8 "2014-08-24T20:37:24Z")
Bo Jackson in the baseball HOF too. My God, was he blessed with talent. And on top of that, so humble and from a good family too. But first and foremost, amazingly talented. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/9 "2014-08-24T20:44:32Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > He certainly would have made it had his career not been cut short. But there are a whole host of athletes whose careers were too short to “prove” they were HOF material. IMHO, one of the criteria for being HOF-worthy is the ability to excel over a long period of time. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/10 "2014-08-24T22:27:26Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > But there are a whole host of athletes whose careers were too short to “prove” they were HOF material. IMHO, one of the criteria for being HOF-worthy is the ability to excel over a long period of time. And I find it surprising that Gale Sayers is in Canton. His career wasn’t that long. ETA: I just looked it up, a 7 year NFL career, 1965-1971. Not a short career, but certainly not long. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/11 "2014-08-24T22:47:54Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > And I find it surprising that Gale Sayers is in Canton. His career wasn’t that long. > > ETA: I just looked it up, a 7 year NFL career, 1965-1971. Not a short career, but certainly not long. Canton is not Cooperstown, as the saying goes (shut up, it’s sort of a saying). Accumulation and benchmark numbers are nowhere near as important, and brief bouts of other-worldliness can get one into the conversation despite a lack of sustained excellence (see Warner, Kurt and Davis, Terrell). ---
**Author:** ![chicagowhitesox1173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@chicagowhitesox1173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicagowhitesox1173)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/12 "2014-08-25T02:22:48Z")
Bo Jackson was on his way for the NFL Hall of Fame but he was no where near being good enough for MLB Hall of Fame. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/13 "2014-08-25T03:29:07Z")
> [@chicagowhitesox1173](#): > > Bo Jackson was on his way for the NFL Hall of Fame but he was no where near being good enough for MLB Hall of Fame. Of course you are right, going by the numbers. I’m not sure what the OP is looking for. If you were looking for the best pure athlete not in their respective Hall of Fame, then Bo Jackson would definitely qualify for baseball. If the OP meant who was the best player not inducted, I would think of someone like Tim Raines. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/14 "2014-08-25T03:47:40Z")
Tim Raines isn’t a bad choise for baseball, though I don’t know the issue well enough to say for sure he’s the best choice. Ken Anderson comes up a lot for the NFL. He put up some amazing statistical years, largely in an era that was very unfriendly to passing stats, but he does have a [gaping, five-year hole](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AndeKe00.htm) in the middle of his career. In reality, that’s why he’s not in the HoF. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/15 "2014-08-25T03:57:57Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > If the OP meant who was the best player not inducted, I would think of someone like Tim Raines. > [@VarlosZ](#): > > Tim Raines isn’t a bad choise for baseball, though I don’t know the issue well enough to say for sure he’s the best choice. People have taken to using Raines as an example of a player who should be in the Hall of Fame. So the number of votes he’s been getting are increasing. He probably will end up being inducted as long as there isn’t a backlash. ---
**Author:** ![Pabitel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@Pabitel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pabitel)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/16 "2014-08-25T15:31:05Z")
Sweet Lou Whitaker, Baseball, 2nd Base. Using the modern statistics he rates the fifth-highest among Hall of Fame second basemen in Wins Above Replacement (WAR) at 74.8. That ranks him higher than 19 of the second basemen in the HOF including Roberto Alomar and Ryne Sandberg. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/17 "2014-08-25T16:02:03Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > But there are a whole host of athletes whose careers were too short to “prove” they were HOF material. IMHO, one of the criteria for being HOF-worthy is the ability to excel over a long period of time. Baseball player Addie Joss was given a special dispensation, because he died at age 31, before fulfilling the ten-year minimum, and was possibly the best pitcher ever. J R Richard comes to mind as another pitcher who might have been in the Hall if his career had not been shortened by illness. Football is problematic, because there is an NFL Hall of Fame, which of course does not include great players like Bo Jackson, who elected not to pursue a career in pro football. Sadaharu Oh, the Japanese baseball player, is not (to my knowledge) in any Hall of Fame that is based in the USA. Nor are several Russian hockey playesr, like Valerie Kharlamov and Viktor Tretiak, who showed in international play that they were superior to any NHL player. East African long-distance runners are not in any Hall of Fame, but were faster than anyone who is. Are Pele and Beckham in any Hall of Fame? ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/18 "2014-08-25T16:10:51Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Football is problematic, because there is an NFL Hall of Fame, which of course does not include great players like Bo Jackson, who elected not to pursue a career in pro football. It’s actually the “ **Pro Football** Hall of Fame” (a distinction which is not totally meaningless since there have been, and still are, other professional football leagues), and Bo Jackson most assuredly did pursue a pro football career – he just got injured doing so before it turn into a \*\*long \*\*career. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/19 "2014-08-25T16:29:33Z")
I’ve always thought of Joe Theismann as someone who didn’t quite belong in the football HoF, but was near the top of the not-quite-HoF-worthy class. ---
**Author:** ![chicagowhitesox1173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@chicagowhitesox1173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicagowhitesox1173)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/20 "2014-08-25T16:50:01Z")
I always thought Joe Nameth didn’t belong. Jim McMahan should be in if Namath was allowed in. And McMahon has no business being in. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351.md?page=2)