# Best athlete not in his/her sport's Hall of Fame? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 24, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351 "2014-08-24T04:46:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/21 "2014-08-25T19:15:47Z")
Well, Barry Bonds is definitely one of the 5 best position players in baseball history and Roger Clemens is definitely one of the 5 best pitchers in baseball history, and both are eligible for the Hall of Fame… but the voters have shunned them, so far, due to (well founded) supicion that they used steroids. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/22 "2014-08-25T19:34:52Z")
Among pro football players, I fully agree that Ken Anderson is the best quarterback not elected to the Hall of Fame in Canton. A few other football players I’d like to see elected: Charles Haley Sam Mills Edgerrin James Randy Gradishar Chuck Howley L.C. Greenwood Otis Taylor Bob Kuechenberg Lemar Parrish Joe Klecko Joe Jacoby Isaac Bruce Isaac Curtis Tommy Nobis ---
**Author:** ![chicagowhitesox1173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@chicagowhitesox1173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicagowhitesox1173)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/23 "2014-08-25T19:45:22Z")
It’s tough to go by best athlete for a Hall of Famer because there have been a lot of great athletes who never panned out. Deon Sanders would probably be another guy for baseball. But again he has no business being in the MLB HOF. Some Guy’s in my opinion who deserve consideration for MLB Hall of Fame. Just off the top of my head. Cecil Travis…WW2 cost him a plaque Gil Hodges Sherry Magee Lou Whitaker Alan Trammell Minnie Minoso Billy Pierce Tim Raines Richie Allen Chino Smith…Negro league player Ted Simmons I also think Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe Jackson and every steroid user who had a Hall of Fame career should be in too. Sosa probably wouldn’t make my cut though. I don’t think he was a Hall of famer without roids. I do think Bonds and Clemens were. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/24 "2014-08-25T21:56:13Z")
There are also quite a few eligible major league players who have not been elected because… well, there’s no evidence thye DID use steroids, but, well, so many of their contemporaries did, and it’s hard to be sure, and there are whispers that maybe this guy bulked up a little too much or that that guy was kinda chummy with a guy mentioned in the Mitchell Report… I have to figure a LOT of players would already have been elected by now if nobody was worried about possibly electing a steroid user. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/25 "2014-08-25T22:27:46Z")
> [@Pabitel](#): > > Sweet Lou Whitaker, Baseball, 2nd Base. Using the modern statistics he rates the fifth-highest among Hall of Fame second basemen in Wins Above Replacement (WAR) at 74.8. That ranks him higher than 19 of the second basemen in the HOF including Roberto Alomar and Ryne Sandberg. Or his DP partner **Alan Trammell** with his 6 All-Star appearances and 4 Golden Gloves? mmm ETA: And lifetime .285 average over a 20-year career ---
**Author:** ![chicagowhitesox1173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@chicagowhitesox1173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicagowhitesox1173)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/26 "2014-08-26T02:34:53Z")
Yeah Bagwell and Piazza will both probably be kept out due to suspicion. I don’t get why Biggio gets a lot of support, if anybody used, that little guy should be at the top of the list for suspicious players. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/27 "2014-08-26T03:28:54Z")
> [@chicagowhitesox1173](#): > > Yeah Bagwell and Piazza will both probably be kept out due to suspicion. I don’t get why Biggio gets a lot of support, if anybody used, that little guy should be at the top of the list for suspicious players. There’s so much sheer guesswork involved. In too many cases, voters make guesses based on how muscular or bulky guys look. Greg Maddux was elected because he never looked big or muscular. But many of the guys who HAVE been nailed for steroid use have been pitchers, and not even particularly good ones. Many mediocre middle innings relief pitchers have used steroids NOT to get big but to recover quickly after pitching several innings so they never have to tell the manager, “Sorry, Skip, I’m too tired to pitch today.” Do we KNOW Greg Maddux never used steroids late in his career to help him recover and keep making his starts every 5 days? Of course we don’t know- just as we don’t know if Jeff Bagwell used. But suspicions are keeping Bagwell out thus far. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/28 "2014-08-26T05:57:09Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Pete Rose wasn’t really “external.” He bet _on baseball_, while still active in the sport. So he deserves to be banned for life plus. Agreed, but in keeping with the OP, “Best athlete not in his/her sport’s Hall of Fame?” Yeah, Pete Rose. I doubt his record will ever be matched. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/29 "2014-08-26T06:32:22Z")
The OP is worded a little weird. Not sure if he’s looking for the “Mendoza line” of each sports Hall, or if he’s looking for a collection of special “athletes” in the Bo Jackson mold who probably belong if not for the vagaries of the process and injury. Upon first reading I inferred the former, and I think that’s probably an unanswerable question. People loudly and aggressively argue the merits of the players on the cusp and one persons “best not in” is a Hall of Very Good type guy while another’s is a unspeakable travesty of justice that will be rectified once those old hacks doing voting die off. For the NFL I’ll go with everyone else and say Bo Jackson, but I’m pretty sure that falls in the OPs “external factors” caveat since, really, he never had a shot. Tim Raines is the guy I think of for baseball, but admittedly I’m not much of a baseball honk and he’s the guy that seems to have the most justifiable beef with the committee. Of course, I’m sure more than a few of the steroid guys are better than Raines, but I guess that falls into the “external factors” caveat. Not sure why but you don’t hear that much about the basketball HOFs almost-but-not-quite guys that much. I bet there’s a few good candidates there. On a whim I Googled it and got this old [ESPN Page 2 article](http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/probasketball/notinhall.html) from 2002. Interesting stuff, and I think I’d say Bernard King and Artis Gilmore fit the bill. ---
**Author:** ![chicagowhitesox1173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@chicagowhitesox1173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicagowhitesox1173)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/30 "2014-08-26T08:00:01Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The OP is worded a little weird. Not sure if he’s looking for the “Mendoza line” of each sports Hall, or if he’s looking for a collection of special “athletes” in the Bo Jackson mold who probably belong if not for the vagaries of the process and injury. > > Upon first reading I inferred the former, and I think that’s probably an unanswerable question. People loudly and aggressively argue the merits of the players on the cusp and one persons “best not in” is a Hall of Very Good type guy while another’s is a unspeakable travesty of justice that will be rectified once those old hacks doing voting die off. > > For the NFL I’ll go with everyone else and say Bo Jackson, but I’m pretty sure that falls in the OPs “external factors” caveat since, really, he never had a shot. Tim Raines is the guy I think of for baseball, but admittedly I’m not much of a baseball honk and he’s the guy that seems to have the most justifiable beef with the committee. Of course, I’m sure more than a few of the steroid guys are better than Raines, but I guess that falls into the “external factors” caveat. > > Not sure why but you don’t hear that much about the basketball HOFs almost-but-not-quite guys that much. I bet there’s a few good candidates there. On a whim I Googled it and got this old [ESPN Page 2 article](http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/probasketball/notinhall.html) from 2002. Interesting stuff, and I think I’d say Bernard King and Artis Gilmore fit the bill. Bernard King reminds me of a baseball equal to like Al Oliver or Harold Baines. Good one dimensional type of players. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/31 "2014-08-26T17:56:06Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Among pro football players, I fully agree that Ken Anderson is the best quarterback not elected to the Hall of Fame in Canton. > > A few other football players I’d like to see elected: > > Charles Haley > Sam Mills > Edgerrin James > Randy Gradishar > Chuck Howley > L.C. Greenwood > Otis Taylor > Bob Kuechenberg > Lemar Parrish > Joe Klecko > Joe Jacoby > Isaac Bruce > Isaac Curtis > Tommy Nobis I’ll comment on the ones I feel capable of commenting on: Lemar Parrish - absolutely. I remember the first time I really became aware of him and Isaac Curtis was in a Redskins-Bengals game in 1974. The 'Skins were still a good team, though down from their 1972 peak, but Curtis and Parrish looked like they were playing the game on a whole different level than the Redskins were - faster, stronger, better moves. Every time the 'Skins got close, one of those two would do something spectacular, and we’d be down by 11 again. I don’t have as much of a sense of Curtis’ career as a whole, but Lemar came to the Redskins in 1978, and instantly improved the defense. Joe Jacoby - you bet. He and Russ Grimm were the rocks on which Joe Gibbs built the Redskins offense of the 1980s. L.C. Greenwood - Steel Curtain. Yeppers. Chuck Howley - not so much. I remember him as being certainly a better-than-average player, but I don’t believe opposing players stayed up nights worrying about how Chuck Howley was going to beat them. That’s about all the players on that list I feel qualified to comment on. ---
**Author:** ![Personal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Personal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Personal)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/32 "2014-08-26T18:25:21Z")
I would add Steve Garvey to the list of MLB players. I still haven’t figured that one out. In fact, over the years I’ve seen him identified as an HOFer – many think he’s already in. But I’m not sure that he meets the OP’s criteria of best athlete. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/33 "2014-08-26T18:56:23Z")
> [@Personal](#): > > I would add Steve Garvey to the list of MLB players. I still haven’t figured that one out. In fact, over the years I’ve seen him identified as an HOFer – many think he’s already in. Garvey’s not in the HOF because his productivity ended suddenly and relatively early when compared with other HOF first-basemen (see also Keith Hernandez). There’s also that scandal involving his fathering of multiple kids after he presented himself during his career as a righteous All-American hero. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/34 "2014-08-26T18:57:32Z")
I’ve actually never been able to figure Garvey out from the other direction. Good player, but a .294 hitter who didn’t hit home runs doesn’t usually get people so excited. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/35 "2014-08-26T18:58:38Z")
Jim Plunkett is the ONLY multiple Lombardi winning QB eligible who isn’t in. I’d add Stabler and Brodie. ---
**Author:** ![chicagowhitesox1173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/46a35a/32.png) [@chicagowhitesox1173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicagowhitesox1173)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/36 "2014-08-26T22:54:01Z")
More baseball players who deserve consideration Mike Mussina Bill Dahlen Curt Schilling Larry Walker Edgar Martinez Jack Morris Tommy John Jim Kaat Dwight Evans Tony Mullane Dave Parker Fred McGriff Bobby Grich Lee Smith Wes Ferrell Jim McCormick Tony Olivia Luis Tiant Dale Murphy Will Clark Jeff Kent Stan Hack Albert Belle Ken Boyer Keith Hernandez Don Mattingly Paul Hines Darrell Evans David Cone Carlos Delgado Craig Nettles Heinie Groh Thurman Munson Dan Quisenberry Norm Cash I would say all these guys are better than at least 20-25 players already in. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/37 "2014-08-27T05:11:34Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Well, Barry Bonds is definitely one of the 5 best position players in baseball history and Roger Clemens is definitely one of the 5 best pitchers in baseball history, and both are eligible for the Hall of Fame… but the voters have shunned them, so far, due to (well founded) supicion that they used steroids. Yeah. How can people be mentioning Rose & Garvey(!) when Bonds and Clemens aren’t in? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/38 "2014-08-28T00:37:49Z")
In hockey, Dave Andreychuk is 14th overall in goals scored but not in the Hockey Hall of Fame. In stock car racing Lloyd Seay was described by NASCAR founder Bill France Sr as the best pure driver ever. He was murdered at age 21 by his cousin over a moonshine dispute ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/39 "2014-08-28T00:55:30Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Sadaharu Oh, the Japanese baseball player, is not (to my knowledge) in any Hall of Fame that is based in the USA. Nor are several Russian hockey playesr, like Valerie Kharlamov and Viktor Tretiak, who showed in international play that they were superior to any NHL player. Since the Hockey Hall of Fame is in Canada, you’re technically correct, but Vladislaw Tretiak (who I assume you mean) and Kharlamov are both in it. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351/40 "2014-08-28T20:14:21Z")
I forgot to mention- I nearly said Terrell Owens. After all, as big a jerk as he was, I believe he was a great enough receiver to make it into the Hall of Fame. Except, I was wrong. He’s not eligible for the Hall because, even now, he’s not officially retired. He’s still trying to get a roster spot n the NFL, at age 40. Until he actually retires, he’s not eligible t be elected. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-athlete-not-in-his-her-sports-hall-of-fame/696351.md?page=3)