# Best caliber weapon for apocalypse scrounging **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 15, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200 "2016-01-15T05:27:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/21 "2016-01-16T03:07:35Z")
Make sure you get the 5.56 NATO chambering in your AR-pattern rifle, though. If you do that you can fire both military 5.56 and also .223 Remington, which is not safe with .223-chambered rifles. The reason is that the two rounds are not precisely the same and the military round is loaded to produce higher pressures, increasing the likelihood of a kaboom. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/22 "2016-01-16T03:13:30Z")
Figures I’d do that. Robin knows bupkis about guns. That was me. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/23 "2016-01-16T03:17:53Z")
BB gun or pellet rifle. Especially the pump kind. Ammo is easy to find or make and you can even use old rounds. Plus very silent. Granted only useful against small game like squirrels. ---
**Author:** ![Stinky\_Pete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Stinky\_Pete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stinky_Pete)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/24 "2016-01-16T12:12:44Z")
You’ve got two basic reasons to have a gun in apocalypse. First is for hunting. Second is for self defense. For hunting the 22 long rifle bullet and the 12 gauge shotgun are you best options. No need for ammo larger than a 22 since it is powerful enough to kill the game you are likely to find. Both these types of ammo are very scroungable. As mentioned above, pellet guns and bee bee guns are fine for the small animals you are likely to be hunting. For self defense your two main threats in the apocalypse scenario are humans and packs of wild dogs. Even with zombies about, it is the non-zombie humans that are a greater threat to your survival. If they don’t kill you they will rob you of everything you need for survival and without your gear you will die. Wild dogs are a big threat in that, unlike wolves and mountain lions and bears, dogs do not fear and avoid humans. Packs of domesticated dogs that have gone feral will hunt and attack humans. For dogs or humans the 22 and 12 gauge shotgun are still good weapons. the common calibers of 357 and 9mm pistol ammo, and 223 rifle ammo are very good for defense and are pretty common, so these are top of your list for scrounging. These last three calibers aren’t the best for hunting the small game you will likely be targeting. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/25 "2016-01-16T13:44:27Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > In the U.K. where guns are not plentiful a cross bow and a hunting bow, they are both silent and you can retrieve both bolts and arrows for future use They are also very heavy and awkward. Also keep a supply of bowstrings. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/26 "2016-01-16T13:48:30Z")
Crossbows, and hunting slingshots, should be mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/27 "2016-01-16T15:24:50Z")
I’ll vote for something even older – a blunderbuss. Supposedly they will fire anything that will fit in the barrel. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/28 "2016-01-17T02:02:39Z")
A note about black powder: it is NOT as simple and easy to make as some people think. For starters, the ingredients have to be as pure as possible- the sulfur has to be free of sulfur oxides and the potassium nitrate historically required an elaborate purification process. Then there’s mixing it: to get uniform powder that will resist having the ingredients separate, you need a “ball mill”, a tumbler that will pulverize the ingredients and press the sulfur and nitrate into pores in the charcoal. Then it has to be “corned”- wetted, (carefully!) dried, then the resulting brick broken into chunks and sieved to get grains the right size to pack neither too loosely nor too densely. Do you know where’s the nearest place to where you live that native sulfur can be mined? Do you know how to distinguish potassium nitrate from any other white salt? Preparing good black powder was the job of master craftsman. Without extensive practice and experience, you probably wouldn’t get a powder that would do anything other than go \like a squib firecracker. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/29 "2016-01-17T03:29:29Z")
Captain Kirk didn’t seem to have a [problem.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDD3-2_wLR8) ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/30 "2016-01-17T05:46:22Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > A note about black powder: it is NOT as simple and easy to make as some people think. For starters, the ingredients have to be as pure as possible- the sulfur has to be free of sulfur oxides and the potassium nitrate historically required an elaborate purification process. Then there’s mixing it: to get uniform powder that will resist having the ingredients separate, you need a “ball mill”, a tumbler that will pulverize the ingredients and press the sulfur and nitrate into pores in the charcoal. Then it has to be “corned”- wetted, (carefully!) dried, then the resulting brick broken into chunks and sieved to get grains the right size to pack neither too loosely nor too densely. > > Do you know where’s the nearest place to where you live that native sulfur can be mined? Do you know how to distinguish potassium nitrate from any other white salt? Preparing good black powder was the job of master craftsman. Without extensive practice and experience, you probably wouldn’t get a powder that would do anything other than go \like a squib firecracker. All true and I suggest practicing now and getting all the tools and equipment together. But black powder is made all over the world even by primitive tribes. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/31 "2016-01-17T17:22:34Z")
> [@rainy](#): > > The region you are in, and thus the types of big game hunted may affect the answer to this question. In the western US, big game hunters take game at much longer ranges than their eastern counterparts. That will lead to a market for long range flat shooting ammo like .270. In most places on the east coast, 400+ yard shots are all but non-existent, and there is no game decidedly needing a caliber starting with a 4, so familiarity and market demand for those isn’t as high so .30-06 and .30-30 are more popular, thus more available…The generally agreed consensus was that in the event you left your ammo at home, the easiest ammo to find in stores was .30-06 based on the opinions of a dozen deer hunter… Good points. There’s a reason that militaries don’t field dozens of types of guns at the same time. Even though you can make arguments that such-and-such a mission might be slightly easier if everyone swapped their standard service rifles for some weird niche gun (or even the standard gun of a different branch or country), getting the right parts, ammo, and training to the right places is so expensive that it’s really not worth it. An M-16, AK-47, FN FAL, or whatever is “good enough” for most operations. Are Thompsons still available? One of the big selling points of the Tommy Gun was that it used standard 45ACP pistol ammo as made famous in the M1911 pistol, which was (and is) a staple of shooting in the USA. One order of ammo, fewer headaches, and more lead down the field. There’s also the trading angle, so even if you, for example, have a 9mm pistol, you can still scrounge up 12 gauge shells, 22LR, 45ACP, and whatever else you find from abandoned basements and trade them in the informal marketplaces that will no doubt sprout up in an apocalypse scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/32 "2016-01-19T11:54:25Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > They are also very heavy and awkward. Also keep a supply of bowstrings. Heavy they are not, compared to firearms. The trend these days is for [smaller and smaller crossbows](http://excaliburcrossbow.org/catalog/crossbow/micro_355). A little over 5 lbs. with a length of around 30", they would compare to [ultra-light rifles](http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_weight.htm). Awkward, I give you, having hauled these through the woods in the past - the crosswise dimension readily catches on vegetation and requires extra room to fire. Also, very slow and awkward in case of a need for a second shot, so terrible for self-defense, especially. But a semi-skilled craftsperson could produce extra ammo from inert bits of wood and scrap metal using basic hand tools, even if modern crossbows aren’t particularly suited for them. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/33 "2016-01-19T14:45:32Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Captain Kirk didn’t seem to have a [problem.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDD3-2_wLR8) Yeah, but he wasn’t able to build a rudimentary lathe… ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200/34 "2016-01-19T18:33:33Z")
Shotgun inserts are worth considering if you want to be able to fire multiple different rounds (mostly handgun rounds) from one firearm. The downside is that they usually only work with break action shotguns. High end air guns can match the ballistic performance of an AR-15 and you can make the pellets using a mold. The downside is that you can only get about ten shots off before you have to recharge from a diving tank (and the guns are MUCH MUCH longer barreled (i.e. heavy)) and the recharging a diving tank with a foot pump can take all day. Bows and crossbows are silent and the ammunition is much easier to manufacture. But there is a reason why military and police don’t use them (they are less accurate (especially bows), bulky, and they have poor range relative to firearms). The AR-15 is a very good balance of weight and lethality if you are worried about other people and it is effective for hunting most North American predators like wolves and mountain lions. The 22lr is good for pretty much everything else that you might need. Sure you can’t take down elk but it is effective for hunting anything you can eat at one sitting. I’d pack a fishing pole too. It is infinitely easier to fish than to hunt IMHO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-caliber-weapon-for-apocalypse-scrounging/743200.md?page=1)