# Best car for driving in ice and snow? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 24, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795 "2013-03-24T04:15:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/21 "2013-03-24T14:43:41Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > Or if you live in an above/freezing, snowless area and drive a few hundred miles to your winter skiing vacation, that’ll eat up those winter tires. Ok, so what? I really don’t have the energy to sit here and nitpick over contrived “But but what ifs” where winter tires might not be the optimum solution. But if someone is asking about what kind of **CAR** is good in the snow, it stands to reason that they live in an area which gets a non-trivial amount of snow. At which point I think it’s reasonable to offer that spending a few hundred bucks on a set of winter tires which will last 3-4 seasons is better than spending a lot more than that on a specific car because someone thinks it’s “good in the snow.” Get the car you want, and have a set of winter tires for when they’re needed. BAM, you’ve got a car that is good in the snow. Tires are what connect the vehicle to the ground. Tires matter FAR more than the type of vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/22 "2013-03-24T14:48:46Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > I had an old Subaru & its worked great in snow. The new ones look nice too, but people tell me that they have 'belt transmissions" instead of the tried and true gear transmissions. This gets you better mileage but from what I’ve heard, once a belt goes, the car is _Done_. The old Subaru Justys probably set the CVT back 20 years in the US, but the newer CVT-equipped Subarus seem to be thus far no less reliable than a conventional automatic. You can also still get everything they sell except the Tribeca with a trusty old manual. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/23 "2013-03-24T15:26:32Z")
I grew up in the Lake Tahoe area and still maintain a home in the Sierras. I have a Subaru Outback and love it. Great snow car. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Surb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Surb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Surb)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/24 "2013-03-24T15:38:11Z")
> [@Dano83860](#): > > Stick to the big three in the US. Foreign cars can be expensive to maintain as your service options are more limited than domestic car. Chevy, Ford and Dodge all have good options. This is so wrong. All of my four Hondas were made in Ohio. Subarus are assembled by Fuji Heavy (formerly an Isuzu plant) in Indiana. Some of the Toyota Camry’s were assembled in the same plant. The Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe were made in the same assembly plant at the NUMMI plant in California. You may want to review your “Made In America” definition. Back to the OP, I’ve never had a Subaru, but I’ll echo the sentiment that there sure are a lot of them in Colorado. Someone must think they’re good in the snow. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/25 "2013-03-24T16:07:06Z")
Wow, lots of good information here! We will keep all of this in mind while we search for a car. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/26 "2013-03-24T16:52:38Z")
A guy I know in Boston owns an R8, and he says it handles really well in bad weather conditions. He said because it is a racing car, it is designed to handle well and maintain traction while driving. So I wonder how AWD racing cars or sports cars hold up in winter when they have good tires. I am not a winter driving expert, and wonder how the high torque and horespower would affect handling. For anyone who is interested, [TireRack](http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=X-Ice+Xi2&SID=EsSakJSjEeK1LOIyL47SEgGWQ7_WMvU3_0SM_0_0&AID=10398365&PID=1225267)is having a clearance on winter tires. The tires are discounted about 30%, plus there is a $70 rebate if you buy a set of 4. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/27 "2013-03-24T17:19:04Z")
AWD might not be necessary, but is sure is nice. I have what Jeep calls “Quadra-Drive”, which means limited slip. So if one of the wheels is hung up in snow and spinning uselessly the power is directed to the wheel that is not. Nice not just in the winter but when one of the wheels starts hydroplaning in the summer. I’ve never had snow tires. I generally split the difference with “All Terrain” tires. They’re marketed for people to do light off-roading, which they’re capable of, but functionally they split the difference between “All Weather” (summer tires) and winter tires, so you don’t have to change tires twice a year. AFIAK they only come in sizes for vehicles that can in fact off-road. Generally: Big tires/ high ground clearance=good, Small tires = OK 4WD / AWD= Best (part time 4WD is absolutely the best if you want to go absolutely nuts, but most people don’t know when to use it correctly) ,FWD= OK, RWD= Bad Snow tires= best, All terrain=good, standard= OK Whether you want something more than a standard front wheel drive car with standard tires depends on how desperate you need to get out right after it snows, how well they plow the roads, if you’ll trade gas mileage for better winter performance, personal preference, and such. My Jeep is extremely nice, but I’m not under any delusions that I actually _need_ it. My Jeep takes premium fuel and get about 20 on the highway under ideal conditions so it’s not exactly economical to drive, a Subaru wagon or a crossover might be a good compromise. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/28 "2013-03-24T18:23:23Z")
It’s not the car, it’s the driver. YOU need to learn how to drive on ice and snow. Having AWD or big nobby tires or some huge thing that looks like a tank will do nothing if you don’t drive properly for the conditions. **SLOW** and STEADY. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/29 "2013-03-24T19:04:52Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > That said, there’s nothing this side of $30k that performs as well as a Subaru in the snow. They used to be driven by people who really needed the AWD system and were willing to put up with their sub-par reliability and lackluster gas mileage, but those have both massively improved over the past 5 years or so to the point that they’re decent choices even if you don’t ever leave dry pavement. I’m not sure what you mean about “sub-par reliability”: With the exception of a few low end models and the SVX grand tourer back in the early 'Nineties, Subaru has consistently ranked at the top of reliability and total cost of ownership. Subaru models as a rule have ranked at the top of crash test ratings as well, which is another consideration, albeit one you hope never has to be used, for driving in inclement weather. (You may be able to control your own driving, but you can’t account for the idiot who blows down an icy highway at 80 mph in his Firebird.) Gas mileage on Subarus, however, is unimpressive given engine displacement and car weight. > [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > I had an old Subaru & its worked great in snow. The new ones look nice too, but people tell me that they have 'belt transmissions" instead of the tried and true gear transmissions. This gets you better mileage but from what I’ve heard, once a belt goes, the car is _Done_. Please make the effort to understand what you are talking about before offering a poorly-informed opinion based upon what “people tell me”. What you are talking about with ‘belt transmissions’ is a continuously variable transmission (CVT) which uses a flexible belt and conical sheeves which allow the transmission ratio (the ratio between the engine speed and the rotation speed of the tires) to vary in order to maintain engine speed in the optimum range for efficiency or power. This differs from clutch-driven synchromesh “manual” transmissions, or planetary gear style “automatic” transmissions; however, most Subarus with exception of a couple of models use one of these types of transmission rather than a CVT. Early CVTs on all makes of vehicles had various reliability problems, often related to the belt or sheeves, but these issues have been mostly resolved in modern CVT. If the belt were to fail, it can be replaced just like a clutch in a manual transmission, or a torque converter in a planetary-style automatic. This is obviously a major, \>US$1000 repair, but the car is not “_Done_”. > [@Zebra](#): > > It’s not the car, it’s the driver. > > YOU need to learn how to drive on ice and snow. Having AWD or big nobby tires or some huge thing that looks like a tank will do nothing if you don’t drive properly for the conditions. > > **SLOW** and STEADY. This is absolutely true, and should be kept in mind; while all wheel drive and snow tires or chains can help improve performance in inclement conditions, the true safety is with the operator driving within both their own and the car’s capabilities. Too many people throw on snow tires and then drive like they are on dry pavement, ignoring the fact that while the tires may give some additional traction, if you lose grip you are still going to slide. That being said, I’ve driven an Subaru AWD through icy and snowy mountain passes with just all-weather high performance radial tires (chains for backup, but I’ve never used them) with no problems, just being cautious and measured in my driving. Personally, I think the Subaru AWD system is one of the better ones out there (along with the Audi quattro Gen IV and newer and the Ford system used on the Fusion. AWD certainly does help with maintaining and regaining traction authority even without a traction control system. But no traction system or tire is going to magically stop your car if you get into a free slide on black ice; the only solution is not to get yourself in that situation to begin with by driving with appropriate caution. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![onemind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/85f322/32.png) [@onemind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/onemind)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/30 "2013-03-24T19:11:47Z")
I am on my third Forester (first two destroyed in Sandy) I guess I’m a lesbian. ---
**Author:** ![Minnie\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Minnie\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minnie_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/31 "2013-03-24T19:23:52Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > A guy I know in Boston owns an R8, and he says it handles really well in bad weather conditions. He said because it is a racing car, it is designed to handle well and maintain traction while driving. > > So I wonder how AWD racing cars or sports cars hold up in winter when they have good tires. I am not a winter driving expert, and wonder how the high torque and horespower would affect handling. We have an Audi S4. It is amazing in snowy conditions. I would say it is better than some AWD SUV’s I’ve driven. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/32 "2013-03-24T19:27:24Z")
We drive in Calgary all winter on a Toyota Corolla and a Ford Mustang - both with snow tires. And about 100 years of driving winter experience between the two of us. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/33 "2013-03-24T19:38:59Z")
it can change a man [QUATTRO!!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9rYqm6CQPM) Ripping it up, making the snow fly, quattro owns the road. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/34 "2013-03-24T19:50:00Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean about “sub-par reliability”: With the exception of a few low end models and the SVX grand tourer back in the early 'Nineties, Subaru has consistently ranked at the top of reliability and total cost of ownership. I don’t know if there’s any way to find old car reliability ratings, but I think you are misremembering. Subaru certainly had a reputation for reliability, largely due to riding the coat tails of the other Japanese makes and their highly vocal apologist owners\*, but that was not actually reflected in the reliability figures at the time. They were roughly on the level of the big 3 in those days-- they certainly made some okay cars, but they also had occasional serious and persistant internal engine problems all through the 80’s and 90’s, into the early 2000’s. Not just on obscure models either, but on the flat-4 workhorses that were in the bulk of their cars. (\*I’ve seriously had someone tell me how great their old 80’s Subie was because it made it to 250,000 miles… on three engines and about five head gasket replacements.) ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/35 "2013-03-24T19:52:33Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Definitely having a set of winter tires is more important that specific vehicular choice, barring some sort of overpowered RWD muscle car. One secret I’m suprised everyone in snow country doesn’t know is that winter tires don’t cost anything-- if you get them mounted on an extra set of rims most good tire shops will change them over for free (assuming you bought them there) and every mile you put on your snows is a mile you don’t put on your summer tires, so they last twice as long. > > That said, there’s nothing this side of $30k that performs as well as a Subaru in the snow. They used to be driven by people who really needed the AWD system and were willing to put up with their sub-par reliability and lackluster gas mileage, but those have both massively improved over the past 5 years or so to the point that they’re decent choices even if you don’t ever leave dry pavement. > > (Also, where I am in the Northern Rockies, they’re still laughed at as hippie cars, but everyone drives them. I often see deer strapped to the top of them during hunting season.) The only thing I would quibble with is your comment about older Subaru’s “sub-par reliability.” For 30 years my wife and I drove Toyotas (2WD truck, 4WD trucks, 4WD 4-Runner, Camry) and we always swore we’d never consider any other brand. But eight years ago we moved up here to NW Idaho, and needed an AWD “station wagon” (what are they called nowdays?). Subaru was the obvious choice, and “everybody else” was driving them, so we got a three-year old 2002 Outback. Eight years later, that car has proven to be just as dependable and trouble-free as our revered Toyotas. The handful of Sub owners I’ve spoken to report similar satisfaction. And although I do not have complete faith in Consumer Reports (far from it, in fact), IF I remember correctly they’ve usually rated the 21st-century Sub’s reliability as being very close to Toyota’s and Honda’s. Of course, my opinions are not facts, and I reserve the right to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/36 "2013-03-24T20:36:52Z")
> [@chela](#): > > it can change a man > > [QUATTRO!!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9rYqm6CQPM) > > Ripping it up, making the snow fly, quattro owns the road. 🆒 I spent the 11 years before moving to Oregon in Alaska. During that time I owned two Wranglers, a Honda CR-V, a Chrysler 300 AWD and a Saturn Vue SUV. They were all fine, but then much of that was in how I drive and the rubber. But I have to say that my colleague’s Audi Quattro wagon put them all to shame. I’ve never ridden in a car that treated snow as if it wasn’t there. I think he had Blizzak tires on it, but still. . .the goddamn thing cornered like it was on rails. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/37 "2013-03-25T00:25:30Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > Before we set foot on a car lot I thought I would check here and ask if anyone has any recommendations for a car that handles winter weather well or if people can tell us if we are concerned about something that doesn’t really matter at all. For those of you who currently live in snowy areas, what car do you drive and how does it handle the ice and snow? What car would you recommend for someone living in a cold weather area? I live about 50 miles north of Toronto, and weather goes year by year. Some winters are mild, and others are interesting. I would say to start with canvass your neighbors for information on snow clearance. In my neck of the woods, the primary highway and secondaries get plowed or bladed depending on snowfall, on a regular basis. The tertiary and side roads might not get plowed for up to about 12ish hours, again depending on snowfall. In practice, that means that while you can drive on the road, getting out of your drive way and then getting out of your street is not possible in some storms. This for vehicles with a really low ground clearance. So for me, it would boil down to , is your commute pretty much urban, in which case I would get a car with all weather tires, or a highway commute, in which case an SUV would be my choice, (I drive a ford escape) with snow tires, and chains if legal, just in case. Boston drivers on the other hand are somewhat legendary, from what we have heard and may have to be taken into account as well, for winter hazards. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/38 "2013-03-25T00:37:59Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Subaru here too. > > Here in NW Idaho (COLD snowy winters) Subarus are everywhere, and the stereotype is “liberal.” Another very happy Subaru Forester owner. I’ve driven on mountain roads in the west through snow 8 inches deep with it, no problems. It’s perfect on the steep snowy and icy roads in Upstate New York, too, where it is practically the state vehicle. I’ve heard that said about Vermont, as well. I haven’t heard the lesbian stereotype about Subaru drivers in about 8 years or so. Outmoded, I think. As someone said above, a driver with snow and ice experience, who doesn’t drive too fast for road conditions, most important. So take a winter driving class when winter comes round again, and good luck with your move. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/39 "2013-03-25T00:59:35Z")
I’ve lived in New England all my life, greater Boston area most of the time and AWD certainly isn’t needed. Good tires, patience, and some good driving skills will certainly be sufficient to get by. Occasionally it’s nice to have 4WD for pulling into or out of a snowfilled parking spot or going up a nasty hill, and on rare occasions the extra ground clearance comes in handy. I have a Subaru Outback but I spend a lot of time in northern New England skiing and hiking so I use the AWD and ground clearance fairly often. But for years I drove a Honda Accord and a Saturn SW2 in Boston and NH without problems. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795/40 "2013-03-25T01:11:54Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > they don’t; winter tires have thick tread blocs but a very soft compound. They typically don’t even carry a treadwear rating. You also don’t want to drive them in temperatures above 50°F or they’ll wear faster. But IMO it makes way more sense to have a set of winter tires on cheap wheels ready to go than worrying about what kind of _car_ is “good in the snow.” > > The other key thing is that winter tires will do something that no AWD or 4WD system can do, and that is help you **stop** more effectively. with winters on my car, on snow-covered roads I can stop at a normal braking rate without ABS kicking in. > [@jz78817](#): > > anecdotally, I think that’s more due to SUV drivers being idiots than anything to do with tires or weight distribution. I emphasize: AWD or 4WD will not help you stop. AWD will help you move forward under certain conditions. Therefore AWD will not make your ride safer. That quality is dependent upon proper driving. Admittedly antilock brakes will help you stop, but even that requires some skill to use effectively. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-car-for-driving-in-ice-and-snow/653795.md?page=3)