Ok, so what? I really don’t have the energy to sit here and nitpick over contrived “But but what ifs” where winter tires might not be the optimum solution. But if someone is asking about what kind of CAR is good in the snow, it stands to reason that they live in an area which gets a non-trivial amount of snow. At which point I think it’s reasonable to offer that spending a few hundred bucks on a set of winter tires which will last 3-4 seasons is better than spending a lot more than that on a specific car because someone thinks it’s “good in the snow.” Get the car you want, and have a set of winter tires for when they’re needed. BAM, you’ve got a car that is good in the snow.
Tires are what connect the vehicle to the ground. Tires matter FAR more than the type of vehicle.
The old Subaru Justys probably set the CVT back 20 years in the US, but the newer CVT-equipped Subarus seem to be thus far no less reliable than a conventional automatic. You can also still get everything they sell except the Tribeca with a trusty old manual.
This is so wrong. All of my four Hondas were made in Ohio. Subarus are assembled by Fuji Heavy (formerly an Isuzu plant) in Indiana. Some of the Toyota Camry’s were assembled in the same plant.
The Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe were made in the same assembly plant at the NUMMI plant in California.
You may want to review your “Made In America” definition.
Back to the OP, I’ve never had a Subaru, but I’ll echo the sentiment that there sure are a lot of them in Colorado. Someone must think they’re good in the snow.
A guy I know in Boston owns an R8, and he says it handles really well in bad weather conditions. He said because it is a racing car, it is designed to handle well and maintain traction while driving.
So I wonder how AWD racing cars or sports cars hold up in winter when they have good tires. I am not a winter driving expert, and wonder how the high torque and horespower would affect handling.
For anyone who is interested, TireRackis having a clearance on winter tires. The tires are discounted about 30%, plus there is a $70 rebate if you buy a set of 4.
AWD might not be necessary, but is sure is nice. I have what Jeep calls “Quadra-Drive”, which means limited slip. So if one of the wheels is hung up in snow and spinning uselessly the power is directed to the wheel that is not. Nice not just in the winter but when one of the wheels starts hydroplaning in the summer.
I’ve never had snow tires. I generally split the difference with “All Terrain” tires. They’re marketed for people to do light off-roading, which they’re capable of, but functionally they split the difference between “All Weather” (summer tires) and winter tires, so you don’t have to change tires twice a year. AFIAK they only come in sizes for vehicles that can in fact off-road.
Generally:
Big tires/ high ground clearance=good, Small tires = OK
4WD / AWD= Best (part time 4WD is absolutely the best if you want to go absolutely nuts, but most people don’t know when to use it correctly) ,FWD= OK, RWD= Bad
Snow tires= best, All terrain=good, standard= OK
Whether you want something more than a standard front wheel drive car with standard tires depends on how desperate you need to get out right after it snows, how well they plow the roads, if you’ll trade gas mileage for better winter performance, personal preference, and such. My Jeep is extremely nice, but I’m not under any delusions that I actually need it. My Jeep takes premium fuel and get about 20 on the highway under ideal conditions so it’s not exactly economical to drive, a Subaru wagon or a crossover might be a good compromise.
It’s not the car, it’s the driver.
YOU need to learn how to drive on ice and snow. Having AWD or big nobby tires or some huge thing that looks like a tank will do nothing if you don’t drive properly for the conditions.
I’m not sure what you mean about “sub-par reliability”: With the exception of a few low end models and the SVX grand tourer back in the early 'Nineties, Subaru has consistently ranked at the top of reliability and total cost of ownership. Subaru models as a rule have ranked at the top of crash test ratings as well, which is another consideration, albeit one you hope never has to be used, for driving in inclement weather. (You may be able to control your own driving, but you can’t account for the idiot who blows down an icy highway at 80 mph in his Firebird.) Gas mileage on Subarus, however, is unimpressive given engine displacement and car weight.
Please make the effort to understand what you are talking about before offering a poorly-informed opinion based upon what “people tell me”. What you are talking about with ‘belt transmissions’ is a continuously variable transmission (CVT) which uses a flexible belt and conical sheeves which allow the transmission ratio (the ratio between the engine speed and the rotation speed of the tires) to vary in order to maintain engine speed in the optimum range for efficiency or power. This differs from clutch-driven synchromesh “manual” transmissions, or planetary gear style “automatic” transmissions; however, most Subarus with exception of a couple of models use one of these types of transmission rather than a CVT. Early CVTs on all makes of vehicles had various reliability problems, often related to the belt or sheeves, but these issues have been mostly resolved in modern CVT. If the belt were to fail, it can be replaced just like a clutch in a manual transmission, or a torque converter in a planetary-style automatic. This is obviously a major, >US$1000 repair, but the car is not “Done”.
This is absolutely true, and should be kept in mind; while all wheel drive and snow tires or chains can help improve performance in inclement conditions, the true safety is with the operator driving within both their own and the car’s capabilities. Too many people throw on snow tires and then drive like they are on dry pavement, ignoring the fact that while the tires may give some additional traction, if you lose grip you are still going to slide.
That being said, I’ve driven an Subaru AWD through icy and snowy mountain passes with just all-weather high performance radial tires (chains for backup, but I’ve never used them) with no problems, just being cautious and measured in my driving. Personally, I think the Subaru AWD system is one of the better ones out there (along with the Audi quattro Gen IV and newer and the Ford system used on the Fusion. AWD certainly does help with maintaining and regaining traction authority even without a traction control system. But no traction system or tire is going to magically stop your car if you get into a free slide on black ice; the only solution is not to get yourself in that situation to begin with by driving with appropriate caution.
We drive in Calgary all winter on a Toyota Corolla and a Ford Mustang - both with snow tires. And about 100 years of driving winter experience between the two of us.
I don’t know if there’s any way to find old car reliability ratings, but I think you are misremembering.
Subaru certainly had a reputation for reliability, largely due to riding the coat tails of the other Japanese makes and their highly vocal apologist owners*, but that was not actually reflected in the reliability figures at the time. They were roughly on the level of the big 3 in those days-- they certainly made some okay cars, but they also had occasional serious and persistant internal engine problems all through the 80’s and 90’s, into the early 2000’s. Not just on obscure models either, but on the flat-4 workhorses that were in the bulk of their cars.
(*I’ve seriously had someone tell me how great their old 80’s Subie was because it made it to 250,000 miles… on three engines and about five head gasket replacements.)
The only thing I would quibble with is your comment about older Subaru’s “sub-par reliability.”
For 30 years my wife and I drove Toyotas (2WD truck, 4WD trucks, 4WD 4-Runner, Camry) and we always swore we’d never consider any other brand. But eight years ago we moved up here to NW Idaho, and needed an AWD “station wagon” (what are they called nowdays?). Subaru was the obvious choice, and “everybody else” was driving them, so we got a three-year old 2002 Outback. Eight years later, that car has proven to be just as dependable and trouble-free as our revered Toyotas. The handful of Sub owners I’ve spoken to report similar satisfaction. And although I do not have complete faith in Consumer Reports (far from it, in fact), IF I remember correctly they’ve usually rated the 21st-century Sub’s reliability as being very close to Toyota’s and Honda’s.
Of course, my opinions are not facts, and I reserve the right to be wrong.
I spent the 11 years before moving to Oregon in Alaska. During that time I owned two Wranglers, a Honda CR-V, a Chrysler 300 AWD and a Saturn Vue SUV. They were all fine, but then much of that was in how I drive and the rubber. But I have to say that my colleague’s Audi Quattro wagon put them all to shame. I’ve never ridden in a car that treated snow as if it wasn’t there. I think he had Blizzak tires on it, but still. . .the goddamn thing cornered like it was on rails.
I live about 50 miles north of Toronto, and weather goes year by year. Some winters are mild, and others are interesting. I would say to start with canvass your neighbors for information on snow clearance. In my neck of the woods, the primary highway and secondaries get plowed or bladed depending on snowfall, on a regular basis. The tertiary and side roads might not get plowed for up to about 12ish hours, again depending on snowfall.
In practice, that means that while you can drive on the road, getting out of your drive way and then getting out of your street is not possible in some storms. This for vehicles with a really low ground clearance. So for me, it would boil down to , is your commute pretty much urban, in which case I would get a car with all weather tires, or a highway commute, in which case an SUV would be my choice, (I drive a ford escape) with snow tires, and chains if legal, just in case.
Boston drivers on the other hand are somewhat legendary, from what we have heard and may have to be taken into account as well, for winter hazards.
Another very happy Subaru Forester owner. I’ve driven on mountain roads in the west through snow 8 inches deep with it, no problems. It’s perfect on the steep snowy and icy roads in Upstate New York, too, where it is practically the state vehicle. I’ve heard that said about Vermont, as well.
I haven’t heard the lesbian stereotype about Subaru drivers in about 8 years or so. Outmoded, I think.
As someone said above, a driver with snow and ice experience, who doesn’t drive too fast for road conditions, most important. So take a winter driving class when winter comes round again, and good luck with your move.
I’ve lived in New England all my life, greater Boston area most of the time and AWD certainly isn’t needed. Good tires, patience, and some good driving skills will certainly be sufficient to get by. Occasionally it’s nice to have 4WD for pulling into or out of a snowfilled parking spot or going up a nasty hill, and on rare occasions the extra ground clearance comes in handy.
I have a Subaru Outback but I spend a lot of time in northern New England skiing and hiking so I use the AWD and ground clearance fairly often. But for years I drove a Honda Accord and a Saturn SW2 in Boston and NH without problems.
