# Best cities in the US for pizza **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 7, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096 "2019-02-07T02:17:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/81 "2019-02-08T15:05:32Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I had no idea this pizza had a name. Around here we just always called it pizza king pizza. > > I didn’t know st Louis and Dayton are associated with this pizza style. St. Louis’s Imo’s is a thin crust, circular, square-cut pizza, whose distinguishing feature is the use of Provel cheese, which is a kind of melty processed cheese product. I would consider it separate from what appears to be Dayton pizza. But if you’re lumping all those together, you may as well take the pies of the upper Midwest that are similarly served and cut (like I said, Chicago’s day-to-day pizza is thin and cut like that.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/82 "2019-02-08T15:17:07Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The problem with Chicago style “pizza” is that it should be renamed to something else. It is a perfectly valid dish but it ain’t pizza and you will be disgusted if real real pizza is what you were expecting. I completely disagree. Plus it does have a name: deep dish (a la Unos or Malnati’s). And then there’s stuffed (a la Giordano’s). And then there’s pan (a la Pequod’s.) Pizza as a generic term has a wide range.Even in Italy you have pizzas from your Neapolitan styles, thin crust, minimal toppings, soft centers to your pizzas al taglio, which are more like foccacia, thick, cooked in sheet pans and served in rectangles. You have pizza without red sauce. You have pizza topped with potatoes and rosemary. You even have pizzas without the ton of cheese on a typical New York style pie (see the classic pizza marinara.) “Pizza” describes a wide range of bread-based dishes. I can’t see how deep dish fails definitionally. It’s arguably more familiar and recognizable as pizza to Americans (it has crust, red sauce, cheese, and toppings like sausage or pepperoni) to something like a pizza al taglio topped with zucchini and uncooked prosciutto. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/83 "2019-02-08T15:26:43Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I had no idea this pizza had a name. Around here we just always called it pizza king pizza. > > I didn’t know st Louis and Dayton are associated with this pizza style. > [@pulykamell](#): > > St. Louis’s Imo’s is a thin crust, circular, square-cut pizza, whose distinguishing feature is the use of Provel cheese, which is a kind of melty processed cheese product. I would consider it separate from what appears to be Dayton pizza. But if you’re lumping all those together, you may as well take the pies of the upper Midwest that are similarly served and cut (like I said, Chicago’s day-to-day pizza is thin and cut like that.) I guess this is the style that folks are disparaging as “ketchup on a cracker.” But, like any style of pizza, it can be good or bad. I’ve had great pizzas of all kinds of styles, bud if I had to live with only one style of pizza for the rest of my life, it would be Marion’s cracker-thin crust cut into tiny squares. As far as what is Dayton-style, it seems to be similar to St. Louis, but it doesn’t have the provel cheese. I haven’t had St. Louis style, so I don’t know how similar the tomato sauce is. (One midwestern pizza that I hate is Columbus’s Donato’s Pizza. Yuk. … We used to joke that if there’s a Donato’s Pizza, there must be a Pizzato’s Doughnuts.) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/84 "2019-02-08T15:35:44Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > St. Louis’s Imo’s is a thin crust, circular, square-cut pizza, whose distinguishing feature is the use of Provel cheese, which is a kind of melty processed cheese product. I would consider it separate from what appears to be Dayton pizza. But if you’re lumping all those together, you may as well take the pies of the upper Midwest that are similarly served and cut (like I said, Chicago’s day-to-day pizza is thin and cut like that.) Before this thread, I thought there were only three kinds of pizza. Chicago deep dish, New York style and traditional. I didn’t know the cracker crust, square cut slices, crumbled toppings of pizza king was associated with any cities. I don’t know much about provel cheese. We just called it pizza king pizza. Didn’t know st Louis and Dayton are associated with this style. I also didn’t know rectanglular deep dish was known as Detroit style. Is traditional pizza (regular sized triangle shapes on a 12-14" pie, the kind you find at most pizza chains) known for any region? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/85 "2019-02-08T15:47:57Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Before this thread, I thought there were only three kinds of pizza. Chicago deep dish, New York style and traditional. > > I didn’t know the cracker crust, square cut slices, crumbled toppings of pizza king was associated with any cities. I don’t know much about provel cheese. We just called it pizza king pizza. Didn’t know st Louis and Dayton are associated with this style. > > I also didn’t know rectanglular deep dish was known as Detroit style. > > Is traditional pizza (regular sized triangle shapes on a 12-14" pie, the kind you find at most pizza chains) known for any region? To be specific, provel is associated with St. Louis, and most strongly with Imo’s in St. Louis. I do not believe it is used anywhere outside that area on pizzas (looks like it may dip across the border into Illinois.) [Wikipedia has a reasonable run-down](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_in_the_United_States) of the major styles in the US. And you can even drill down more finely, if you wish. (Like I said above, even Chicago’s deep dish comes in three different versions: traditional deep dish (single crust), stuffed (has an additional thin layer of dough on top which is covered in sauce–you may have seen stuffed pizza at a Sbarro’s in the mall, but our stuffed pizza is a bit different), and pan (thicker crust than deep dish, which should not have a very thick crust. Pequod’s, Gulliver’s, and Burt’s are examples of this style.)) Oh, and then there’s this crazy thing called [pizza pot pie](http://chicagopizzaandovengrinder.com/menu/), which I’ve never had, and is only served, to my knowledge, at that one place. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/86 "2019-02-08T16:07:06Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I guess this is the style that folks are disparaging as “ketchup on a cracker.” Yes, some of those come closer to “ketchup on a cracker” than I would describe New York style, which is not crackery at all, in my experience. Of the pizza places I’ve visited, the one that most defines the cracker style for me is [Zaffiro’s in Mlwaukee](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g60097-d392133-Reviews-Zaffiro_s-Milwaukee_Wisconsin.html#photos;aggregationId=101&albumid=101&filter=7&ff=319117803). Superficially, it may look like a Chicago thin crust, but the crust is thinner and much more crispy crackery than what you’d get here. It’s also a delicious pizza. The sauce isn’t anything I’d describe as “ketchup.” Even my Sicilian friend from Queens loved the pizza there. His attitude on pizza is: I don’t care what kind it as, as long as it tastes good. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/87 "2019-02-08T16:08:27Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Seriously, what exactly makes a “good pizza city” besides historical reputation? I tried to give a definition in an earlier post. A good pizza city is a metropolitan area where you are never more than a few miles from a great slice of pizza. Preferably more than one place. You shouldn’t have to make a special trip to get great pizza. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/88 "2019-02-08T16:18:15Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > I actually researched this topic for an article a while back and one city that came up a lot is Old Forge, PA, which has two incredible Umbrian-style pizzerias across the street from each other. I have not been there yet, but it’s on my bucket list. If you want to try it at home, I’ve found [this recipe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-yJ7sdzWTg) (Youtube link) worked a treat. Victory Pig is not one of the Old Forge places, but it’s in the same part of PA, just a bit down the road towards Wilkes-Barre. [Here are my results making it earlier this year](http://www.pawinskiphotography.com/public/pizza/pizza9.jpg). [And here](http://www.pawinskiphotography.com/public/pizza/pizza8.jpg). It was literally the best pizza I had ever made at home. I’m actually partial to thinner styles of pizza, but this works great in a home oven, and the crumb of that dough is just perfect. Thick, yet somehow light and airy, with a crisp bottom from the oil (similar in many ways to a Detroit-style pizza.) Give it a shot if you’ve ever got the time and inclination. It compared favorably to the Old Forge pizza I’ve had (we ended up at Revello’s.) ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/89 "2019-02-08T16:29:56Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Rosati’s is the Chicago chain out there that does a reasonable Chicago-style thin crust. I’ve had their pizza a couple times out in Phoenix and it compares relatively well to their Chicago outposts, but Rosati’s here in Chicago is not a favorite of mine, as it tends to be on the sweet side of the Chicago scale. And Chicago crust isn’t really cracker-like. A lot of people describe it as “cracker crust” but there’s very few pizzas I’ve had here that are what I would describe as a true cracker. There’s chew to the crust, and the middle pieces end up being foldable in 95% of Chicago thin crusts I’ve had. But the edge pieces are usually crisp enough that if you cut the pizza into a pie slice, you’d have trouble folding it. > > There’s also Oregano’s out there in Phoenix. They have no restaurant locations here in Chicago, but they claim to do some kind of Chicago thin crust on their menu. I do like their pizza. It’s not quite like the thin crusts I’ve had here in Chicago, but it’s solid. > > There also used be an outpost of Vito & Nicks II out in Phoenix, but that’s been gone since about ten years ago. Vito & Nick’s (the original, not II) is my favorite example of Chicago thin crust. I have no idea what the II location (which is owned by a different part of the family) is like, and I never had a chance to try it while it was out there in Phoenix, as I generally try to avoid food I could get back home when I go there. Rosati’s I’ve tried because the in-laws like it.) > > As for the square cut, it’s because it’s meant to be finger food while drinking beer at the bar type of pizza. So it works great where you want something to peck at instead of committing to a whole eighth of a pie at a time. I’m fine with either type of cut, but for Chicago thin crust, party cut is the way to go. Rosati’s is the place I was talking about, they have a location a couple of miles from my house. But I’m not necessarily looking for Chicago style, but I guess what would be called Philly style (although to me it’s just “pizza”, every other style is a variant). And yes, the middle pieces of the Rosati’s pizza have a nice texture but the majority of the pie has an overly crunchy cracker-like consistency. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/90 "2019-02-08T16:47:26Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > And yes, the middle pieces of the Rosati’s pizza have a nice texture but the majority of the pie has an overly crunchy cracker-like consistency. Yeah, I admit, I may be nitpicking or too finely slicing up my pizza taxonomy. It’s definitely cracker-like compared to standard East Coast styles of pizza. But I find frozen thin crust pizzas are more crackery than your standard Chicago thin (though I suppose that depends on how you bake your pizza.) So it depends on how specific you want to be. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/91 "2019-02-08T17:18:48Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Where’s the great pizza in Washington? > > Dayton, Ohio, should be on the list. Dayton has a style of pizza I haven’t found anywhere else yet—available at Marion’s Piazza and Cassano’s Pizza King. It’s heaven. Cassano’s. Man, that takes me back. Thin crust, cut in squares, toppings all the way to the edge…delicious! And the steak sandwich! Now I am hungry. And I will disappointed with whatever I eat. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/92 "2019-02-08T22:38:35Z")
I really didn’t have much pizza during my 5 years in NYC that I considered “great”. However, I never lived or worked anywhere in the city where I couldn’t have a good, solid slice in my hand in less than 5 minutes (unless the line was really long). ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/93 "2019-02-08T23:11:57Z")
I wouldn’t put Atlanta on any list of great pizza cities. But we do have several gourmet, Neapolitan brick oven-fired pizzerias: Cafe Antico, Varasano’s, Sapori di Napoli (founded by a pair of brothers from Naples), and Fritti. The latter imported a builder from Naples to build their brick oven, and Neapolitan _pizzuolos_ to use it. For hey-let’s-go-get-pizza pizza, I haven’t found any great restaurants. Our go-to is Fellini’s and Cameli’s, both of which are acceptable, but neither would I call world-shaking. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/94 "2019-02-08T23:18:02Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Is traditional pizza (regular sized triangle shapes on a 12-14" pie, the kind you find at most pizza chains) known for any region? Sort of, IMO. NY pizza is HUGE slices; the folding is necessary for structural integrity because of the size of the slice and the thin crust. ETA: Am I the only one who likes Sicilian style pizza? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/95 "2019-02-08T23:57:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Sort of, IMO. NY pizza is HUGE slices; the folding is necessary for structural integrity because of the size of the slice and the thin crust. > > ETA: Am I the only one who likes Sicilian style pizza? A good Sicilian is wonderful. I still remember summer 1994, attending summer school at Harvard, and having my first Sicilian slice at Pinnochio’s in Cambridge. Wonderful stuff. There’s exactly two food memories I have from my two months in town: that and the hot dogs at (now defunct) Elsie’s. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/96 "2019-02-09T00:13:07Z")
To those considering trying Detroit style in Detroit; IMO, it’s best if you ask for it well done. Most place seem to be cutting the cooking time shorter and shorter so that the crispy fried cheese on the edges is short-changed. All the crispy you can get is better:) ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/97 "2019-02-09T00:34:44Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > To those considering trying Detroit style in Detroit; IMO, it’s best if you ask for it well done. Most place seem to be cutting the cooking time shorter and shorter so that the crispy fried cheese on the edges is short-changed. All the crispy you can get is better:) As the wise, late Terry Pratchett noted, [burnt crunchy bits](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/984049-sham-harga-had-run-a-successful-eatery-for-many-years) are one of the four food groups. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/98 "2019-02-09T00:47:53Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Sort of, IMO. NY pizza is HUGE slices; the folding is necessary for structural integrity because of the size of the slice and the thin crust. > > ETA: Am I the only one who likes Sicilian style pizza? When I was growing up a bakery near my temple sold great Sicilian pizza. On my last trip to NY there was a pizza place within feet from my apartment. They were out of Sicilian when I went and their regular pizza sucked. I’m from NY, but 40 years ago anyway the best pizza was in Champaign Illinois, specifically Papa Del’s. Thick pan, best sausage ever. Good enough so that when I worked in NJ someone who went to the U of I also would bring back a stack of pies in dry ice for all the alums. I’m from New York, but that beat anything I’ve ever eaten there. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/99 "2019-02-09T02:54:58Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > For everyday pizza or grinders (hero sandwiches) If there’s one thing I miss about New England, it’s hot oven grinders. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096/100 "2019-02-09T02:56:17Z")
The best city for pizza _was_ Whitefish, MT, but I understand Truby’s has closed. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-cities-in-the-us-for-pizza/829096.md?page=6)