# Best Composers of all Time **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 19, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336 "2013-03-19T06:04:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/21 "2013-03-20T12:06:39Z")
I am enjoying this thread. Not much to add for Classical composers - I am a Bach and Beethoven guy. From a jazz standpoint, I would add **Thelonius Monk** , with his wonderful, weird chords and jagged rhythms. **Duke Ellington** is the dean of sophisticated jazz composing. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/22 "2013-03-20T12:42:50Z")
I feel differently…there are many excellent composers whoa re sadly, almost unknown: -Francois Couperin -Domenico Scarlatti -Antonio Paradisi -Luigi Boccherini -Thomas Tallis These guys were as good as, or better than the “popular” composers. But Borodin, Rachmaninoff are definitely among the greats. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/23 "2013-03-20T12:48:12Z")
So, what’s the big deal about Handel? Seems his instrumental calling card is the Fireworks music and Water suites. Hardly iconic or pillars of Western music. Shouldn’t he be in the 2nd or 3rd tier of classical composers? I’ve always been perplexed to see many such lists (not just here) include him in the top tier. I suspect that as Britain is the big market for classical music among the Anglophone countries and Handel, having been domesticated there, has sort of been bumped up a notch or two or on that account. I admit that as I don’t listen to much classical music with voice in it, I may very well have missed out on his talents, but on the basis of his instrumental music I’ve heard, I am puzzled. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/24 "2013-03-20T15:42:52Z")
> [@II\_Gyan\_II](#): > > So, what’s the big deal about Handel? Seems his instrumental calling card is the Fireworks music and Water suites. Hardly iconic or pillars of Western music. Shouldn’t he be in the 2nd or 3rd tier of classical composers? I’ve always been perplexed to see many such lists (not just here) include him in the top tier. > > I suspect that as Britain is the big market for classical music among the Anglophone countries and Handel, having been domesticated there, has sort of been bumped up a notch or two or on that account. > > I admit that as I don’t listen to much classical music with voice in it, I may very well have missed out on his talents, but on the basis of his instrumental music I’ve heard, I am puzzled. If you’re judging Handel by his instrumental works, you are really not doing him justice - it’s like someone looking at Beethoven without the symphonies. The oratorios and operas are what makes Handel great - chiefly among them The Messiah, but countless other oratorios that are being performed and enjoyed everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/25 "2013-03-20T17:06:36Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > If you’re judging Handel by his instrumental works, you are really not doing him justice Well, it is _a reflection_ on Handel that his pure musical essays aren’t much to talk about. > [@](#): > > it’s like someone looking at Beethoven without the symphonies. Well, you’d still have the string quartets, concertos, piano sonatas, piano variations, trios..etc > [@](#): > > The oratorios and operas are what makes Handel great - chiefly among them The Messiah, but countless other oratorios that are being performed and enjoyed everywhere. If you look at the [operas](http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=5023&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&genre=33) and [oratorios](http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=5023&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&genre=34), you’ll see that most of them have only a handful of recordings each, barring a handful in double digits and the exceptional 3 or 4 works (like Messiah) making it past 20+ recordings. All the popular operas tend to have about 50+ recordings, like the usual suspects of [Verdi](http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=12554&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&genre=33) or [Puccini](http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=9762&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&genre=33), and none except Messiah cross that mark. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/26 "2013-03-21T06:16:26Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I don’t know about that. Bach is pretty well-rated by everybody from classical to jazz to pop musicians. I mean, almost every list in this thread has him ranked, with many #1s. To call J.S. Bach GOD, is to underrate him. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/27 "2013-03-21T08:24:45Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > If you’re judging Handel by his instrumental works, you are really not doing him justice. > [@II\_Gyan\_II](#): > > Well, it is _a reflection_ on Handel that his pure musical essays aren’t much to talk about. While the rest of your point stands, I find it a bit sad that you seem to view vocal music as somehow _impure_. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/28 "2013-03-21T09:13:23Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > For me, there is no question about Bach, Mozart, Beethoven and Brahms in the top five. The only question is who should be the fifth. …Beethoven? _ducks_ Anyway, I’m nowhere near qualified to rate the _best_, but if I had to put together a list of my five favorites, the top five would probably include Bach, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, Verdi, and Schoenberg. Bach because I’m not sure it’s mathematically possible for other music to exist in a world that does not contain Bach, Tchaikovsky because how could you not, Stravinsky for his ballets, Verdi chiefly for his _Requiem_, and Schoenberg because he scares me, deeply. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/29 "2013-03-21T09:13:46Z")
[QUOTE=Pitchmeister] I find it a bit sad that you seem to view vocal music as somehow impure. [/QUOTE] I was using pure only in its literal sense as applied here i.e. music presented on its own rather than paired with another semantic stimulus (such as lyrics or stage plays). No value judgement rendered. ---
**Author:** ![Tess\_Trueheart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Tess\_Trueheart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tess_Trueheart)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/30 "2013-03-21T15:07:44Z")
I respect “the greats,” but my vote for underrated goes to Leos Janacek. Listen to the piano sonata 1.X.1905 and read about what it’s portraying, and try _not_ to be sad the rest of the day. Then listen to a song cycle or an overture from an opera and try _not_ to be at peace. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/31 "2013-03-21T15:57:55Z")
> [@Tess\_Trueheart](#): > > I respect “the greats,” but my vote for underrated goes to Leos Janacek. Listen to the piano sonata 1.X.1905 and read about what it’s portraying, and try _not_ to be sad the rest of the day. Then listen to a song cycle or an overture from an opera and try _not_ to be at peace. My favourite Janacek piece: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXvFHQyL-4g](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXvFHQyL-4g) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/32 "2013-03-21T21:59:28Z")
Mine would be in rough chronological order: Vivaldi, J.S. Bach, Mozart, Beethovan, Rossinni, Wagner, Puccini, Richard Strauss, Shostakovich, George Gershwin, Ellington. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/33 "2013-03-22T00:42:29Z")
My picks: 1. Bach 2. Mozart 3. Beethoven 4. Tchaikovsky 5. Saint-Saens (not a common pick but I like his work) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/34 "2013-03-22T14:02:40Z")
The problem with a thread like this is that it’s hard to distinguish between “my favorites” and “the greatest.” I don’t know how to be objective about this. I put Lehar and Kalman on my list, but as much as I love them, I’m not sure where they come in on a “greatest” scale. And I didn’t mention Mahler, because i don’t care for most of his music, but I admit there’s something “great” about it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/35 "2013-03-22T17:18:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > 1. Saint-Saens (not a common pick but I like his work) Definitely he’s unjustly neglected. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/36 "2013-03-25T11:40:26Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > The problem with a thread like this is that it’s hard to distinguish between “my favorites” and “the greatest.” I don’t know how to be objective about this. Me neither so here are my totally subjective lists: 1750-1950 THE GREATEST: **Bach** , **Brahms** , **Tchaïkovsky** and **Debussy**. THE ALMOST-AS-GREAT-BUT-NOT-QUITE: **Beethoven** , **Fauré** and **Prokofiev**. THE OTHER-IMPORTANT-ONES: **Schubert** , **Schumann** , **Chopin** , **Dvorák** , **Grieg** and **Stravinsky**. Post-1950 FUTURE CLASSICS: **Ligeti** , **Dutilleux** , **Lutoslawski** , **Messiaen** and **Britten**. OTHER POST WWII COMPOSERS: **Jolivet** , **Kurtág** , **Penderecki** , **Gubaïdulina** , **Takemitsu** and **Murail** Pre-1750 MEDIEVAL AND RENAISSANCE GREATS: **Desprez** , **Dufay** , **Byrd** , \*\*Dowland \*\*and **Monteverdi**. Which boils down to… MY FINAL LIST: **Bach Debussy Brahms Tchaïkovsky Prokofiev Ligeti Beethoven Stravinsky Dutilleux Dowland** ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336/37 "2013-03-25T12:53:18Z")
> [@K364](#): > > Tier 1 - **Bach** , Mozart, Beethoven Yeah, [PDQ Bach](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzXoVo16pTg) is a favorite of mine too, next to Victor Borge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-composers-of-all-time/653336.md?page=1)