# Best director of actors **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 24, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130 "2009-02-24T00:20:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/1 "2009-02-24T00:20:39Z")
When Penelope Cruz won last night, I thought “Damn, Woody Allen has been a very good director for actors.” Working under his direction, the following have won Oscars: [ul] [li]Diane Keaton, Best Actress, _Annie Hall_, 1976[/li][li]Michael Caine, Best Supporting Actor, _Hannah and Her Sisters_, 1986[/li][li]Diane Wiest, Best Supporting Actress, _Hannah and Her Sisters_, 1986[/li][li]Diane Wiest, Best Supporting Actress, _Bullets over Broadway_, 1994[/li][li]Mira Sorvino, Best Supporting Actress, _Might Aphrodite_, 1995[/li][li]Penelope Cruz, Best Supporting Actress, _Vicky Christina Barcelona_, 2008[/li][/ul] (Did I miss any?) So – okay, clearly he’s better with actresses than actors (surprise surprise), and there’s only one “leading” in there – but six awards attributable to one director seems significant. Does any director have a better track record? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/2 "2009-02-24T00:22:36Z")
How many of those did he sleep with? Which is more relevant? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/3 "2009-02-24T00:24:28Z")
Joss Whedon and Quentin Tarantino have both impressed me with their abilities to get good performances out of mediocre actors. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/4 "2009-02-24T00:29:49Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > How many of those did he sleep with? > > Which is more relevant? Don’t know – though I’m pretty sure Penelope Cruz isn’t one of them. And frankly I don’t know that I do see the relevance. The man’s a scumbag, I’m totally not a fan – but he’s proven his ability to get his actors big awards. > [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Joss Whedon and Quentin Tarantino have both impressed me with their abilities to get good performances out of mediocre actors. I’m thinking specifically of acting Oscars here, as an “objective” measure of results. (Yeah, I know it’s bogus, but it’s quantifable, at least.) ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/5 "2009-02-24T00:36:17Z")
Scorsese’s close. Cate Blanchett in _The Aviator_. Joe Pesci in _Goodfellas_. Paul Newman in _The Color of Money_. Robert De Niro in _Raging Bull_. Ellen Burstyn in _Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore._ ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/6 "2009-02-24T00:39:25Z")
> [@Darryl\_Lict](#): > > Scorsese’s close. > > Cate Blanchett in _The Aviator_. > Joe Pesci in _Goodfellas_. > Paul Newman in _The Color of Money_. > Robert De Niro in _Raging Bull_. > Ellen Burstyn in _Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore._ I came in to mention Scorsese. Just compare Joe Pesci’s body of work under Scorsese (Goodfellas, Raging Bull, even Casino) to his body of work under other directors. The gap in intensity and believability is massive. Same for Ray Liotta, to a lesser extent. Scorsese can squeeze blood from a stone. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/7 "2009-02-24T00:40:01Z")
> [@Darryl\_Lict](#): > > Scorsese’s close. > > Cate Blanchett in _The Aviator_. > Joe Pesci in _Goodfellas_. > Paul Newman in _The Color of Money_. > Robert De Niro in _Raging Bull_. > Ellen Burstyn in _Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore._ He’s got three leads and two supportings – do we want to weight them differently? (That’s a semi-serious question.) ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/8 "2009-02-24T00:48:58Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Don’t know – though I’m pretty sure Penelope Cruz isn’t one of them. And frankly I don’t know that I do see the relevance. The man’s a scumbag, I’m totally not a fan – but he’s proven his ability to get his actors big awards. I agree. I was just thinking, the actor-director relationship can be an extremely intimate one; I was just wondering how that might or might not affect the performance. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/9 "2009-02-24T00:58:19Z")
Clint Eastwood certainly gets his actors lots of nominations, and at least a couple of wins. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/10 "2009-02-24T00:59:39Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > How many of those did he sleep with? Keaton for sure, and maybe Wiest? I really hope he didn’t screw Michael Caine… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/11 "2009-02-24T01:07:16Z")
Clint Eastwood: Gene Hackman, Supporting Tim Robbins, Supporting Sean Penn, Lead Morgan Freeman, Supporting Hilary Swank, Lead Same as Scorsese. Hey, as long as we’re playing, we might as well give two points for lead and one for supporting. That would give Eastwood, Scorsese and Allen 7 points each. Without doing any research, I’m willing to bet Billy Wilder scored at least that many. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Batman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@The\_Batman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Batman)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/12 "2009-02-24T01:10:15Z")
I don’t think Diane Keaton, Penelope Cruz et al won their awards because of Woody Allen but rather because they are good artists. Woody Allen simply knows how to pick good performers. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/13 "2009-02-24T01:18:23Z")
Wilder: Walter Matthau, Supporting 1966 William Holden, Leading 1954 Ray Milland, Leading 1946 Barbara Stanwyck, Leading 1944 7 points. Whew. With regard to Woody, if it was just that he picked good artists (assuming he had full control of his main cast, rather than leaving it to the Casting Director), then you would expect to see them win similar awards under other directors. There is also the matter of the material the actors have to work with. Since Woody writes his films as well, you may have to give him more credit for the acting awards than other Directors who simply direct from someone else’s screenplay. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/14 "2009-02-24T01:36:27Z")
> [@Rufus\_Xavier](#): > > Wilder: > > Walter Matthau, Supporting 1966 > William Holden, Leading 1954 > Ray Milland, Leading 1946 > Barbara Stanwyck, Leading 1944 > > 7 points. Whew. You just looked 'em up – do you remember which movies? ETA: Same question for Eastwood. The last two are for _Million Dollar Baby,_ of course. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/15 "2009-02-24T01:53:49Z")
Oops, Scorsese with 8 pts, Eastwood and Allen with 7. Billy Wilder has only 5. I was wrong about Barbara Stanwyck winning. OK, using the [Oscar.com](http://Oscar.com) database, here’s a comprehensive list: [http://awardsdatabase.oscars.org/ampas\_awards/DisplayMain.jsp?curTime=1235438666984](http://awardsdatabase.oscars.org/ampas_awards/DisplayMain.jsp?curTime=1235438666984) It looks like William Wyler is the undisputed champ with 7 Supporting and 6 Lead. On preview: Wilder’s winners: Matthau for _The Fortune Cookie_, Holden for _Stalag 17_ and Milland for _Lost Weekend_. Clint’s winners: Hackman for _Unforgiven_, Robbins and Penn for _Mystic River_, Freeman and Swank for, as you said, _Million Dollar Baby_. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/16 "2009-02-24T01:59:01Z")
> [@Rufus\_Xavier](#): > > OK, using the [Oscar.com](http://Oscar.com) database, here’s a comprehensive list: > > [http://awardsdatabase.oscars.org/ampas\_awards/DisplayMain.jsp?curTime=1235438666984](http://awardsdatabase.oscars.org/ampas_awards/DisplayMain.jsp?curTime=1235438666984) Your session timed out. What were your search terms? ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/17 "2009-02-24T04:37:11Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Your session timed out. What were your search terms? Weird. Anyway, the terms are: Award Category: Acting (…all) Winners Only: check Award Years: 1927/28 to 2008 Display Results by: Director (credited) For those who don’t want to go to the trouble, here are other directors with at least 5 acting awards for their movies: George Cukor: 0 Support, 5 Lead John Ford: 4 Support, 1 Lead Elia Kazan: 7 Support, 2 Lead Fred Zinneman: 3 Support, 2 Lead (and one special Oscar for a juvenile performance: Ivan Jandl in 1948’s _The Search_) So, if we used 2 pts for Lead and 1 pt for Support, we get: William Wyler, 19 pts Elia Kazan, 11 pts George Cukor, 10 pts If we just add total acting Oscars we get: Acting Oscars by Director: Wyler, 13 Kazan, 9 Allen, 6 ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/18 "2009-02-24T16:27:17Z")
Yeah, I’m a little confused by the OP, too. It seems you’re saying that if a number of actors have gotten awards for work performed under a director, then it’s the director’s ability that got them those awards. I’m not certain that’s the case. A great director probably makes it easier, that’s sure. Certainly, some directors are markedly worse than others and can’t get a good performance even from talented actors (I’m looking at you, George Lucas). But is it also true then that amazing directors will then get the best performances from anyone, even amazing actors? I’m not so certain. Coppola certainly didn’t do that well with Garcia or his daughter in Godfather III (admittedly, only one of those is anywhere close to a talented actor, and him sometimes only in certain roles). Some of the actor names we’re tossing about here, however, are highly talented and certainly deserving of whatever awards they’ve received because of their own merit: Hackman, Penn, Blanchett, Mathau, Newman, Burstyn. There’s any number of actors who will be amazing all on their own, regardless of who’s directing. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/19 "2009-02-24T16:31:18Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > When Penelope Cruz won last night, I thought “Damn, Woody Allen has been a very good director for actors.” Working under his direction, the following have won Oscars: > > [ul] > [li]Diane Keaton, Best Actress, _Annie Hall_, 1976[/li][li]Michael Caine, Best Supporting Actor, _Hannah and Her Sisters_, 1986[/li][li]Diane Wiest, Best Supporting Actress, _Hannah and Her Sisters_, 1986[/li][li]Diane Wiest, Best Supporting Actress, _Bullets over Broadway_, 1994[/li][li]Mira Sorvino, Best Supporting Actress, _Might Aphrodite_, 1995[/li][li]Penelope Cruz, Best Supporting Actress, _Vicky Christina Barcelona_, 2008[/li][/ul] > > (Did I miss any?) Didn’t Martin Landau win a Supporting Actor Oscar for “Crimes and Misdemeanors”? That would give Woody another point, if we’re keeping score. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130/20 "2009-02-24T16:50:38Z")
Supposedly, Woody tells his actors if they’d like to rewrite a line, or omit or add a line, please just do it, which is a remarkable amount of leeway. He says the most important thing is that the actors feel comfortable. I forget who said this, but I just heard it from one of his actors a week or so ago. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-director-of-actors/487130.md?page=2)