# Best examples of clearly-successful governmental social programs **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2017, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250 "2017-09-25T02:56:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/1 "2017-09-25T02:56:18Z")
I’m having a Facebook debate with someone right now. He’s strongly libertarian, and he claims that the past 50 years prove that governmental programs which spend money to help increasing social mobility (ie, on things like education, job training; anything which aims to help poor people or their children cease to be poor) never work. Now, I’m entirely willing to accede that they can be complicated, and maybe sometimes they don’t work, and maybe sometimes aren’t worth the money spent, yada yada yada. Presumably there have been plenty that have failed. But it seems like a strong claim to say that they NEVER work. But… I’m definitely not an expert on the topic. So, I’m asking what the best example is of a program which has been well studied and can be relatively clearly said to “work”, where the results justify the money spent. Anyone have any good suggestions? thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/2 "2017-09-25T03:17:53Z")
I’d say social security. Considering years ago you had elderly living in squalor or working almost till they dropped whereas now they can get at least some income has clearly been a benefit for society. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/3 "2017-09-25T03:22:21Z")
Social Security is probably the best example. Medicaid and WIC seem to not be quite as clear-cut, but likely are having strong positive benefits to recipients. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/4 "2017-09-25T03:47:40Z")
Public education doesn’t work? Near-universal literacy doesn’t increase social mobility? WTF? To answer the question: public education is the largest and most successful social program in history. ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/5 "2017-09-25T04:56:04Z")
The [Acid Rain Program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Rain_Program) is widely regarded as successful. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/6 "2017-09-25T05:10:53Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > To answer the question: public education is the largest and most successful social program in history. Agreed. More narrowly if you want to single out a particular program, I’d think most would argue that the G.I. Bill has been a success. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/7 "2017-09-25T11:09:45Z")
Here’s a link for you: [http://governmentisgood.com/articles.php?aid=7](http://governmentisgood.com/articles.php?aid=7) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/8 "2017-09-25T13:52:43Z")
Whether a given program is “successful” is hard to define, especially in the context of libertarian vs welfare state debates. For one thing, you need to consider the range of possible or likely alternatives. And for another (related), you need to consider the various direct and indirect costs of the program. [E.g. for SS, you need to consider the ROI for the average contributor, versus alternatives, not just whether a lot of old guys are getting checks. And so on for other considerations and other programs.] If you leave those out, then virtually all programs are “successful”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/9 "2017-09-25T14:03:45Z")
Public education Public funding of kidney dialysis The GI Bill Social Security ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/10 "2017-09-25T14:17:37Z")
Literacy. Especially free libraries. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/11 "2017-09-25T15:28:48Z")
Marshall Plan ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/12 "2017-09-25T16:51:56Z")
The interstate highway system ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/13 "2017-09-25T17:18:51Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The interstate highway system That program is not considered a social program. And there are lots of complaints about the program (more so in urban areas than rural areas): it has lead to suburban sprawl; divides neighborhoods, causes environmental problems… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/14 "2017-09-25T17:27:33Z")
I’m surprised no one has mentioned Medicare. Single payer, low overhead, and insuring those whose insurance would be absurdly expensive without it. I’ve been on it for a year, and all the money I put into it while working was well worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/15 "2017-09-25T17:32:27Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > That program is not considered a social program. > > And there are lots of complaints about the program (more so in urban areas than rural areas): it has lead to suburban sprawl; divides neighborhoods, causes environmental problems… While I agree about problems in urban areas, when I was a kid I drove with my parents from New York to Washington pre-interstate. It took forever, and I suspect we polluted a lot more sitting at traffic lights and in urban sprawl than someone does driving at a steady pace on a highway. It would be nice to imagine that we’d have better public transport without Interstates, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/16 "2017-09-25T17:39:39Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Whether a given program is “successful” is hard to define, especially in the context of libertarian vs welfare state debates. > > For one thing, you need to consider the range of possible or likely alternatives. And for another (related), you need to consider the various direct and indirect costs of the program. > > [E.g. for SS, you need to consider the ROI for the average contributor, versus alternatives, not just whether a lot of old guys are getting checks. And so on for other considerations and other programs.] > > If you leave those out, then virtually all programs are “successful”. In your opinion are _any_ governmental programs successful and, if not, is it even possible for one to be successful? ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/17 "2017-09-25T18:49:01Z")
Government-funded vaccination programs are probably some of the most successful endeavors in human history, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/18 "2017-09-25T19:04:42Z")
the portion of my absent fathers retirement I get every month instead of ssi means I get to eat and not camp in the desert … makes up for the slop I got fed when he didn’t pay support as a kid ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/19 "2017-09-26T01:16:50Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’d say social security. > > Considering years ago you had elderly living in squalor or working almost till they dropped whereas now they can get at least some income has clearly been a benefit for society. Social security is a good policy but I’ve heard several libertarian complaints about it. 1. They feel people could get a higher rate of return investing in the private market. 2. They feel self disciplined people wouldn’t need mandatory social security, they could save on their own (the fact that less than 5% of people save enough for retirement without social security doesn’t seem to bother them). As far as ideas that can be made to libertarians, I’d say medicare is a good one. Medicare costs less than private insurance and has higher ratings from patients. Better consumer ratings for less cost. Rural electrification is another. The private market had no incentive to get electricity to rural areas, so the government stepped in and incentivized the spread of electricity to rural areas. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2017, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250/20 "2017-09-26T01:22:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Whether a given program is “successful” is hard to define, especially in the context of libertarian vs welfare state debates. > > For one thing, you need to consider the range of possible or likely alternatives. And for another (related), you need to consider the various direct and indirect costs of the program. > > [E.g. for SS, you need to consider the ROI for the average contributor, versus alternatives, not just whether a lot of old guys are getting checks. And so on for other considerations and other programs.] > > If you leave those out, then virtually all programs are “successful”. What about situations where the free market is a failure at solving the problem? Health insurance for the elderly or poor? Health insurance companies have no incentive to cover them, so medicaid and medicare were created. Rural electrification. Private companies have no incentive to cover this, so the state steps in. Universal primary and secondary school. Not everyone can afford the tuition and fees (which may run 10k a year per student) for primary and secondary school in a totally private system. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-examples-of-clearly-successful-governmental-social-programs/797250.md?page=2)