# Best Funds for investing in market as a whole? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 10, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176 "2020-03-10T02:26:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/1 "2020-03-10T02:26:24Z")
I know the experts say you shouldn’t try to time the market, but it seems like a no-brainer that after falling 20% or so in the last couple of weeks, the Dow is bound to make larger than average gains over the next year, and even average gains have been pretty good for the last ten years or so. So, I would like to invest some money ($50K or so) in the Dow or S&P. I’m not interested in individual stocks, I want a broad index. What are some good options if my priorities are fund stability (no chance it will go out of business), liquidity (I can buy or sell any amount at no worse than tomorrow’s price), and low fees? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/2 "2020-03-10T02:40:00Z")
Vanguard S&P 500 ETF (VOO) ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/3 "2020-03-10T02:46:21Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Vanguard S&P 500 ETF (VOO) seconded depending on your tolerance for risk might want to split it up with a broad spectrum bond fund like Vanguard Total Bond Market ETF (BND) as well. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/4 "2020-03-10T02:57:12Z")
Schwab has a good set of index funds with low expenses: > **[Schwab Index Funds](https://www.schwab.com/schwab-index-funds-etfs)** > > Learn about the advantages of investing in index funds. Get low-cost market cap index mutual funds with no minimums. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/5 "2020-03-10T03:10:23Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Schwab has a good set of index funds with low expenses: > [https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts\_products/schwab\_index\_funds\_etfs](https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_products/schwab_index_funds_etfs) Hmm, I happen to have an IRA with Schwab, so that would be easy, but Vanguard looks good, too. Thanks very much to everybody who responded. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/6 "2020-03-10T10:30:23Z")
[Moderating] Since this is a matter of opinion, let’s move it to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![AlTraina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/altraina/32/50_2.png) [@AlTraina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlTraina)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/7 "2020-03-10T10:41:38Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I know the experts say you shouldn’t try to time the market, but **it seems like a no-brainer** that after falling 20% or so in the last couple of weeks, **the Dow is bound to make larger than average gains over the next year** , and even average gains have been pretty good for the last ten years or so. I wouldn’t necessarily bet on this. The market has always recovered, but not necessarily within a year. Don’t invest money in stocks that you need that quickly. If your time frame is longer you can’t go wrong with Vanguard’s Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX). Its average yearly gain has been 12.48% the last ten years. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/8 "2020-03-10T11:00:31Z")
Yeah 2007-09 it took about a year and a half to bottom out. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/9 "2020-03-10T14:37:57Z")
> [@AlTraina](#): > > I wouldn’t necessarily bet on this. The market has always recovered, but not necessarily within a year. Don’t invest money in stocks that you need that quickly. > > If your time frame is longer you can’t go wrong with Vanguard’s Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX). Its average yearly gain has been 12.48% the last ten years. VTSAX is our discretionary investment fund (not our 401 or IRA fund). We have automatic investments twice each week to take advantage of dollar cost averaging. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/10 "2020-03-10T15:40:39Z")
> [@AlTraina](#): > > I wouldn’t necessarily bet on this. The market has always recovered, but not necessarily within a year. Don’t invest money in stocks that you need that quickly. Seconded. Over the course of a year, you simply cannot say that the market will be higher or lower at the end of that time period with any level of confidence. If I had to put $50k on the line one way or the other, I’d guess that the S&P would be lower on 3/10/21 than it is today. According to the [world’s best measure of valuation](https://www.multpl.com/shiller-pe), the stock market is finally back to being valued where it was in 2008 right _before_ the crash, ie, it is still overvalued. > [@Isamu](#): > > Vanguard S&P 500 ETF (VOO) Why that and not SPY? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/11 "2020-03-11T17:35:45Z")
You can open a Fidelity account for free, and their Total US Market fund (FZROX) has a 0.00% expense ratio, which is even more diversified than an S&P 500 fund. They have 3 other zero expense funds as well (large cap, international, and a small-to-mid cap fund). ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/12 "2020-03-12T02:47:47Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Why that and not SPY? I’m not saying its the best or only one. It’s just an option. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/13 "2020-03-12T04:11:21Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > You can open a Fidelity account for free, and their Total US Market fund (FZROX) has a 0.00% expense ratio, which is even more diversified than an S&P 500 fund. They have 3 other zero expense funds as well (large cap, international, and a small-to-mid cap fund). That’s the fee I was looking for. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/14 "2020-03-12T05:19:13Z")
What about someone like me, who has a Vanguard account, some extra cash to invest, and won’t be at retirement age for another twenty years or so? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/15 "2020-03-12T11:53:38Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > What about someone like me, who has a Vanguard account, some extra cash to invest, and won’t be at retirement age for another twenty years or so? I’m sure they have a 2040 target fund, but those typically have a larger fee. If you’re willing and able to manage your bond exposure on your own, their Total Bond Market ETF, BND, has a 0.035% expense ratio. Their 2040 mix is a touch more complicated: [Vanguard Mutual Fund Profile | Vanguard](https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/profile/VFORX) But easily replicated, just at the cost of your time. Or you may not agree with their allocations. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/16 "2020-03-12T12:06:04Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > What about someone like me, who has a Vanguard account, some extra cash to invest, and won’t be at retirement age for another twenty years or so? Wife and I have been putting money in their S&P500 index fund for years now. If you have less than $3K to invest, you can get [VFINX “investor” shares,](https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/profile/VFINX) for which the expense ratio is 0.14%. If you have more than $3K you can get [VFIAX “admiral” shares,](https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/profile/overview/vfiax) for which the expense ratio is 0.04%. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/17 "2020-03-12T12:40:12Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > What about someone like me, who has a Vanguard account, some extra cash to invest, and won’t be at retirement age for another twenty years or so? Any money you don’t need for the next ten years goes into VTSAX, the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund. When you get to be 10 years away from retirement, then you start putting money into VBTLX, the Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund, and when you’re two years away from retirement you start putting money into a CD ladder. And be completely happy about the current stock market decline. People twenty years away from retirement cheering high stock market prices is like people cheering high gasoline prices because their tank is half full. Don’t they know they’re buying, not selling? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/18 "2020-03-12T13:00:16Z")
The above advice will leave the investor somewhat more heavily allocated in stocks at retirement age than is typically advised. And more heavily allocated in cash. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/19 "2020-03-12T14:23:38Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > That’s the fee I was looking for. Thanks. The ticker is FZROX. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176/20 "2020-03-12T15:34:09Z")
What do you think of investing in Berkshire Hathaway stock (BRK-B)? It’s not investing in the market as a whole, but it is diversified. And I think it’s down enough that maybe it makes sense. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-funds-for-investing-in-market-as-a-whole/849176.md?page=2)