Best Guitarists of the 20th and 21st Century

Cafe Society
43

First - thanks to those that like the list - stuff like this can be both silly and difficult - silly because guitar playing is art, dammit, but difficult because making choices involves a critical review of what we think is important and applying that. Ultimately, it is merely an exercise to see if we like the results, but the playing itself and the songs are what truly matter, right?

Second - regarding Folk types - I agree, having one or more categories for finger pickers would be key - Keb Mo is great today along with all of the older folkies and country blues players - jeez, Leo Kottke, anyone? My point with the categories is that, once a set of criteria for Greatness [sup][TM[/sup] is established, a number of “splinter” groups break off that are vital and important in their own right. But the groups overlap and conflict and stretch on into infinity so I just listed some ones that seemed “obvious” to me…

Third - EVH in the pantheon with Jimi and Clapton. You know, I wrote a TON about that in my original post and then deleted it. Ya gotta understand - EVH was the biggest influence on me when I was really getting into guitar (after Jeff Beck, but he was before my time, whereas EVH was The Man in the early '80’s. So, Bomzaway and Spooje, you aren’t going to hear me fighting real hard to knock him down a notch. Having said that - let me ask a couple of questions:

  • are guitarists the world over still playing a ton of tapping and hammering riffs? How about that compared to blues-infected rock, blues with more complex chords, and rhythm-and-lead work? Hendrix was the guy who blew open using more complex chords and using partial rhythm chords while playing lead lines to be both rhythm and lead at once; Clapton did this too and really was a leader in the blues-inflected rock area. EVH pushed this forward, but his true innovations feel (to me, mind you) like they were more of his era - I don’t know that his techniques have much resonance outside of the 80’s. During the 80’s they were practically the only thing that mattered; now, they are respected, and you see them a little, but its not like they are woven as deeply into the fabric of music as Clapton’s and Hendrix’ influences. YMMV - this is not black and white, but a question of degrees.

  • Name Van Halen’s most “important” song…I am inclined to say “Eruption” for turning guitar playing on its ear or “Dance the Night Away” for making Hard Rock/Power Pop cross over on the radio. Have they ever said anything of substance in their songs? Believe me, its okay to be a good Power Pop band - I love VH. But compare that to “The Wind Cries Mary”, “The Star Spangled Banner” or any number of Hendrix’ other songs, or “Tales of Brave Ulysses” or the cover of “Hideaway” (the 60’s version of “Eruption” by the way) or Clapton’s solo stuff - including “Tears in Heaven” - you may not like all of the songs as guitar hero tunes, but there is an attempt to really say something more resonant. Sure they did party tunes as well, but there is more…artistic intent? gravity? whatever you call it, in the songs.

Ultimately it feels like, to me, that EVH was THE most influential guitarist of his era, but ultimately is not as long-term influential as Hendrix and Clapton, which is why I put him one notch below them. Again, YMMV, and I am not going to fight this one very hard.

44

Wordman,

You make some good points about EVH. I remember him as being THE guitarist in the 80’s, and I remember virtually everyone wanking away with that tapping technique. It just seemed so damn cool at the time. (I, like a lot of guitarists at the time, completely overused the technique to the point where I practically forgot how to play a simple blues lick) But as you say, looking around now I don’t hear a lot of people doing it any more. It seems to have been one of the casualties of grunge. And Eddie doesn’t really have that many truly great riffs if you really break them down. He tended to make a simple riff (e.g. "Ain’t Talkin’ 'bout Love) sound better than it was with a lot of embellishments and fills and cool little squeals (remember when a squeal sounded fresh).

As you said, his most important composition was probably “Eruption” and that one song featured pretty much his entire vocabulary of techniques and ideas. I don’t know that he really evolved much after that first album (at least as a guitarist, never mind that keyboard crap) he was pretty much complete at that point.

So, yeah, he doesn’t seem to have had the enduring influence of Jimi or Clapton, but he’s a sentimental favorite for me. I remember when the gauge of a guitarist was “Can you play ‘Eruption?’” I still think that, at his best, Eddie could hold his own with any other soloist out there.

Ironically, EVH has always cited Clapton as his own biggest influence. I, for the life of me, cannot hear Clapton in Eddie. Do you hear it at all?

45

Some that haven’t been mentioned: Elvin Bishop, Michael Bloomfield, Roy Buchanan, John Cipollina, Larry Coryell, Gary Duncan, Rory Gallagher, Dave Mason, Sandro Oliva, Carl Perkins, Mick Taylor, T-Bone Walker, Henry Vestine, Johnny Winter… The list can go on and on

46

wordman - I see your points and agree. So EVH does at the very least deserve a nod.

OMG! How could we forget? He totally kicked Jack Butler’s ass when he was playing for Willie’s soul.

47

How would you like to see Vai and Macchio go head to head for REAL? Without Arlen Roth to secretly play Macchio’s parts, and without Steve Vai pretending to not be able to hit the high bendy part?

48

i said rory gallagher

49

Okay - so you, Diogenes, and Bomzaway and I seem to be on the same page - we’ll have to see where others end up.

As for your question above, yeah, that has been a well-pondered one for some time, and frankly EVH has never done a particularly good job ‘splainin’ himself, has he?

The way I see it, the thing that Hendrix, Clapton, SRV and EVH all do in a way that separates them from the pack is something I mentioned in my previous post - that whole “play partial chords while inserting lead fills, so you keep the rhythm and lead going at once” thing. It’s the electric guitar, flatpick, rock god equivalent of fingerpicking rhythm and lead parts more or less simultaneously. It is hard to do, it is rhythmically interesting, and can be emotional when the lead fills support or provide a counterpoint to the rhythm parts. Diogenes you mentioned “Ain’t Talkin’ Bout Love” - which is a great example - he is playing a simple rhythm, but is injecting cool fills in between - sometimes the fills are complex tapping things, but other times they are simple 1 note squeals or 2 - 3 note melodic phrases - but always, they work within the rhythm and support the overall song.

I think THAT’s what Eddie got from Clapton - the approach of “keep the song moving” and play rhythm and lead in a give and take way within that context. He is applying this approach to hard rock/power pop and using new techniques, all of which makes it sound very different from Clapton, but the same intent seems to be there, y’know? All IMHO, mind you.

PS: BTW, my favorite EVH quote was, early in his superstardom he said, I think in a Guitar Player, that “I always like to have my solos sound like I tripped and am falling down the stairs, but somehow land on my feet” I love that - he wants the solos to have some risk to them, some (seemingly) obvious improvised discovery, but have them resolve in a clean way. Very cool.

50

lost4life, you did indeed mention Rory Gallagher. Sorry I missed it.

51

Yeah, this makes sense. Eddie often talks about EC’s phrasing, but obviously EVH is melodically completely different from Clapton. In fact he doesn’t really sound like anyone melodically. I think in many ways he’s more reminiscent of “Giant Steps” era John Coltrane, or be-bop in general than any obvious guitaristic antecedents.

52

I enjoy U2’s music, but it does seem like The Edge used to lift a hell of a lot from David Gilmour, most notably from “The Wall”.

53

Couple more for you.

Steve Green The guitarist everyone, including Hendirx looked up to.

Micheal Schenker of UFO and the Scorpions.

Steven Stills of CSN

Jeff Beck/ Seriously under recognised but one of the most innovative and skillful players of his time.

No mention of Julian Bream either.

Thought some of you knew your guitarists, seems not.

54

:frowning: We’re sorry, we’ll go now. :frowning:

55

Who is Steve Green? I found a guy in the Universal Band Locator and he’s a gospel singer.

If you mean Peter Green, who used to be in Fleetwood Mac and has since gone the way of Syd Barrett (i.e., a little cuckoo), I mentioned him in my original post to this thread under “Single-Noters” and you come off looking pretty silly in light of your “seems not” comment.

Schenker is wonderful - his work on “Strangers in the Night” - the Life UFO album, especially Rock Bottom and Lights Out is wonderful.

Jeff Beck - I agree with you - truly one of the best. If he crossed over a little more, I would put him up with Hendrix and Clapton, if it were up to me.

Bream - classical - not really in scope for this thread.

Lay off the judgmental comments and play nice, okay?

56

I don’t know how popular the album is, but if you guys haven’t heard it, check out the acoustic jazz recording of Friday Night in San Francisco featuring John McLaughlin, Al DiMeola, and Paco DeLucia. It’s all great, but the track Tales of the Black Forest is particularly wonderful. You’ll laugh, you’ll cry, it’ll become a part of you.

Another excellent guitar album, but more along the hard rock line is Frank Marino and Mahogany Rush Live. Frank’s style is very derivative, but in a good way, and he definitely can ROCK. Especially King Bee (with and excerpt from Back Door Man). Fun stuff to listen to. He also does this bit that sounds like bombs falling and exploding on a track called Electronic Reflections of War. I wan’t sure until I saw him live that he was actually making those sounds with his guitar. Pretty freaky.

Sorry for the hijack…

57

bomzaway,
i got to see dimeola, delucia, mclaughlin in houston and it was simply stunning (awesome seats, right up front), i could not figure out where to look, continuing the hijack, check out the california guitar trio if/when they come to your city, they are awesome (fripp trained acoustic players, their version of “walk don’t run” is incredible)

unclviny

58

May I add Mark Knopfler (Dire Straits) without anyone thinking I’m a complete nutball? His technique is very strong, though his actual music isn’t particularly influential.

I also happen to like Emily Saliers (Indigo Girls - yeah, you heard me right, the Indigo Girls) - she’s not really innovative, but she is very skillful with her isntrument, and gives it as much emotional power as her voice when she’s at her best.

I think Peter Buck (REM) is rather underestimated as well. His unique jangling sound spawned plenty of college band imitators, and was skilled to boot. He uses traditional ideas for forming sounds that work well together, but the way he plays them is really unique (or was, at least) and very cool :cool:.

Neil Young is an excellent guitarist as well. It’s pretty easy to overlook, given that he plays it like… well, he plays the hell out of it, and that’s cool too.

59

:confused: 57 posts and no one has mentioned Duane Allman :confused:

60

58 posts, and no one’s mentioned Kirk Hammett or Zakk Wylde?

61

Diogenes the Cynic,

With my old rig I could play The Star Spangeled Banner and get it really close. 100% perfect? no, but really close. (On a side note, I think that is the worst thing Jimi ever played that I have heard)The reason I can’t now is that my old rig got ripped off and I now have a 1960 Les Paul Goldtop (that will never have a tremelo installed on it) and a little Fender UltraChorus. I just can’t make that kind of tone with my present set up and without a whammy bar, well, whammy bar antics are out. I made my living playing bars up and down the Florida coast for a couple of years and got pretty good at getting other players tones down and covering their styles. The were only three players that gave me fits, Steve Morse, SRV and Eric Johnson.

Speaking of which, why hasn’t anyone put Eric Johnson on this list? Johnson is the tone master and has amazing style and technique.

Or Michael Hedges? Hedges acoustics cover of “All Along the Watchtower” was the best version I have ever heard. Also his work with the harp-guitar was truely awe inspiring.

WordMan, good post and breakdown of the different catagories of players.

On the EVH issue, I have never been a big EVH fan and I agree that his impact was limited to the 80’s. EVH is one hell of a player but it seems to me that he didn’t have the depth required to make a lasting impact. EVH’s biggest impact seems to be the tapping thing which is flashy but didn’t last too long. YMMV.

Slee

62

On the other hand, I’ve read several places (including here: http://www.xtrememusician.com/info/artists/profiles/982.html ) that Hendrix said Moving Sidewalks was the best garage band in America, and called Billy Gibbons (currently with ZZ Top) his favorite guitarist. Supposedly the cite for this is the book “The Jimi Hendrix Experience”, but I’ve never read it so I don’t know if it’s true.

Anybody? Anybody?