# Best MMA fighter v 4 stocky guys **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 21, 2015, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-mma-fighter-v-4-stocky-guys/735339 "2015-10-21T10:17:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-mma-fighter-v-4-stocky-guys/735339/21 "2015-10-21T12:57:39Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That is one of my problems with the Army Combatives Program. Never been in the military, and have no familiarity with ACP, but I used to train a bit with one guy who provided some training to SEAL teams, and we NEVER touched on rear naked chokes. I think the only time I did that was in a traditional JJ class. BTW - I appreciate your perspective and obvious experience. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-mma-fighter-v-4-stocky-guys/735339/22 "2015-10-21T13:11:10Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Not superpowers, but trained fighters are quick, trained at evading, trained at kicking and punching HARD and striking vital targets effectively, and **trained at absorbing considerable abuse**. That last part is the only advantage that I’d give an MMA fighter. They are trained to cover up and endure. In reality it is not that easy to strike an attacker, even one untrained, who is going to do their best to avoid the blow. But even with the ability to endure punishment the MMA fighter is facing four opponents who according to the OP are not idiots with no idea how to fight. I have heard from several martial artists who have all agreed that in any situation facing one or more opponents outside of an organized regulated fight will run or look for a weapon because they are so vulnerable. Listen to what **Loach** is saying, LEOs are trained and have to deal with these situations in reality. Reality is nothing like the movies. I will concede that if the four men are foolish they could be defeated, but given the OP’s description it does not go well for the MMA fighter though there may be circumstances where he will prevail. But the same could be said for a capable person who has far less training than the best MMA fighter does. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-mma-fighter-v-4-stocky-guys/735339/23 "2015-10-21T13:13:08Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Well sure, a fighter against three guys who don’t want to fight and never even throw a punch or rush him. That’s a different scenario. I’ll defer to your (apparently) greater experience. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-mma-fighter-v-4-stocky-guys/735339/24 "2015-10-21T13:58:39Z")
Look, we don’t know what Loach’s “experience” actually is. For all we know, he’s talking about his days as a bouncer at the Jersey Shore ejecting drunk roid-heads from nightclubs. The actual answer is “depends”. Is this current UFC 6’4" 239 lb heavyweight champion Fabricio “Vai Cavalo” Werdum? Who are the “stocky” guys he’s fighting? At 5’10" 190 lbs, I’m a “stocky guy whose been in a few scraps with no advanced skills”. I imagine Werdum could take out AT LEAST four of me without breaking a sweat. Even if msmiths 538 through 541 try to attack at the same time, he’s not going to just stand there at let us encircle him. He’s going to move around to try and break us up. And once he gets close to one of us, I doubt he will stupidly go to his ground game. Werdum is a well-ballanced fighter. He will take advantage of his striking power to try and take us out one at a time. Even if one of his kicks or punches doesn’t cause the attackers head to explode like a pumpkin, it would be enough to break up any coordinated attack. Here’s another question for people who have seen Entourage. How many Turtles would it take to defeat Ronda Roussy? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-mma-fighter-v-4-stocky-guys/735339/25 "2015-10-21T14:01:39Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That is one of my problems with the Army Combatives Program. It is good PT and good at teaching aggressiveness but if I’m in combat and find myself in unarmed combat I am not going to be maneuvering to get a rear naked choke. I’m going to be bashing the guys head in with my ACH. Actually there was a GTA that I recall that included a head butt using the NVG mount for the strike. IIRC correctly there was a takedown for a threat that had grabbed your rifle. It was all about really practical moves that were simple when mostly standing in full field gear. You know some of the generalities of my background. My battalion towards the end had close to a division cadre worth of Level 3s and 4s. They easily certified a couple hundred level 2s during my time there. The schoolhouse knew the issue you mentioned. They taught a lot more to the 3s and 4s to supposedly pass along. I saw the post and frame get incorporated into the POI for level 1 partly because it was a convenient move to clear space to go for a pistol or knife. The justification for the hook was to clear someone out of the way when deadly force wasn’t authorized. There was room in the certification POIs to incorporate more realistic tactical skills and my unit did. I’ve watched sparring that involved a shock knife dropped on the ground nearby. I’ve watched tactical room clearing exercises with a stack going in to a room and an OPFOR that didn’t initially present a reason to use deadly force. Those frequently resolved into a dogpile with a flutty of strikes (using protective suits for the OPFOR.) There’s a lot more possible and he the equipment, like the protective suits, should be available in the set provided to each Brigade. The problem is the program started with a grappling martial art with rules. Institutional inertia set in before the changes really kicked in. As the program adjusted to teach more realistic skills some trainers didn’t keep up with the things they hadn’t been taught. Leaders got used to what they thought the program was. 350-1 only pushes a certain amount sustainment training. It’s easy to just do some basic grappling, check the box, and ignore it. More really is possible. My guys incorporated some “relaxed” safety rules incorporating hand to hand it with other events we ran. If you wanted to detain them you had to really detain them. Getting leaders to know what’s possible, push for it, and resource it is hard. Then there’s the even harder job of getting them to accept the risk. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-mma-fighter-v-4-stocky-guys/735339/26 "2015-10-21T15:15:20Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Here’s another question for people who have seen Entourage. How many Turtles would it take to defeat Ronda Roussy? Trick question. Turtle(s) would never hit a girl. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-mma-fighter-v-4-stocky-guys/735339/27 "2015-10-21T17:40:02Z")
All the people saying “the four guys jump him at once” assume the four guys act in a coordinated manner. Ordinary people are unlikely to strategize; they might all rush him but they’ll arrive at different moments and two will probably get in one anothers’ way. If the MMA guy is a striker, I’m pretty sure he can knock one out before they’re all on him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-mma-fighter-v-4-stocky-guys/735339.md?page=1)