# Best place in the United States to drop off "The Grid" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 4, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495 "2014-02-04T16:54:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/21 "2014-02-05T17:03:50Z")
Yes, and if he wanted nails for his cabin he’d be much better off working at McDonalds for a few hours than he would surveying for iron ore, digging up the ore, finding a source of coal, coking the coal, smelting the iron in a hand-built forge, making the iron into rods and then hand-forming the iron rods into nails. Or you could get a bucket of nails at the hardware store for a few bucks It might be cool to do all these things if that’s your bag, baby. Some people really do period blacksmithing as a hobby. And then they go home to their modern house and watch Dr. Who on Netflix. Some people have huge food gardens and raise vegetables and chickens and pigs for their own consumption. Some people go out into the woods and shoot deer or elk or moose and fill their freezers full of meat for the winter. Some people walk the Pacific Coast Trail for fun. Some people head out into the wilderness to camp and get away from it all. Some people leave behind their old lives and associates because they can’t stay where they are. So before we can advise someone on how to “drop out” we have to know a bit more about what exactly they hope to accomplish by dropping out. And what compromises they can or cannot accept. Do they have savings, or some source of income (like a pension or social security) that they can live off of? Do they need to work for a living? Is this for an adventure, or because their old business partners want to put a bullet in their face? Is it because they can’t stand to be around people anymore? Or because they’re sick of their job, their spouse, their kids, their house, their lifestyle? Or because they want to reduce their ecological footprint, and literally live “off the grid” in the sense that their house is not connected to the electrical grid or water system or other utilities? Or because they just want to live in the country? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/22 "2014-02-05T17:10:05Z")
I’ve never been there, but have heard **western/north-western Maine** is very desolate. Very few roads, and very few people. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/23 "2014-02-06T03:07:30Z")
> [@Desert\_Dumpster](#): > > Not true any more, if it ever was. I’ve worked in Glacier, Rainier, and Yellowstone the last three seasons, and we were as thoroughly screened as the employees of any other corporation would have been. They checked identity documents thoroughly and made us submit I-9s. Yes, they get hard up for people at certain times in the season, but as government contractors working on federal land under a contract lasting decades, they aren’t going to break the rules. What they did instead is run us remaining employees ragged. Glad they fixed it, but you definitely weren’t on the scene even just 15 years ago. So you worked for GSI during the past three years? I worked for them in 1989. Coke was so plentiful in Sequoia that sometimes it was free. Guys would get arrested for assaulting another employee, federal magistrate would fine them $150, and they’d be back at work the following Monday. Who’s running the show in Yellowstone now—is it still TW Rec Services? I worked for them in ’94. They hired guys with no documentation straight out of homeless shelters. They hired a guy in Zion who had a felony warrant for murder. Made it almost the whole season before the Sheriff’s Office found him. As long as your arrest warrant is in another state, you can hide out for a long time in an NP. The NPS does not run concession employees through NCIS. Just keep your head down, don’t own a vehicle, don’t leave the Park, and you can probably still get away with being a wanted criminal in an NP. If you just want to hide out from bill collectors, you’re as good as gold, because you don’t have a mailing address. An even better plan is to not work there at all. Just go live there. Bring in a large amount of coke or meth, and pay the employees in drugs to hide you, feed you, and keep an eye out while you use the shower facilities. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/24 "2014-02-06T05:25:18Z")
I think wilderness is overrated as a hiding place. You’re going to stand out in the middle of a desert or forest. You want to really disappear? Drop off the grid in the middle of New York City. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/25 "2014-02-06T06:06:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You want to really disappear? Drop off the grid in the middle of New York City. As long as you can pay your rent in cash, that really would be the ideal way to do it. I don’t think Walter White’s dissapearer really had much imagination. He put WW through a lot of needless suffering by holing him up in a frigid cabin in New Hampshire. As long as you can accept the fact that you can’t go outside, there’s no reason why you couldn’t hide out indefinitely in a major metropolitan area. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/26 "2014-02-06T11:23:36Z")
I think it takes more money to live “off” the grid, than on it. That’s why so few people do it. But to answer the OP’s question, the best place in the US might be the edges: I have an aquaintance (FOAF) who lives off the grid for most of the year. Usually in 6-8 week portions, interleaved with a week or two back in society. He does this on a large motorsailer, and will occasionally spend 3 months at sea. He has a wind-driven generator and two fresh-water makers. Re-provisioning is a must, as there seems to be no way to grow sufficient vegetables aboard, but the majority of other needs are met from the sea. He seems content to spend his life floating, but has a source of (retirement) income sufficient for repairs and his few provisioning stops. Occasionally he has found himself needing to winter somewhere and pay mooring charges due to wandering too far north too late in the year (ended up in Greenland a few years ago and anchored for the winter). I try not to think about him when I’m in my cubicle. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Lars\_Aruns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@Lars\_Aruns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lars_Aruns)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/27 "2014-02-06T22:32:59Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I have whole books on this subject. You do? Which ones would you recommend? I don’t think I’ll ever do it, but I have to admit I am fascinated by the idea of “dropping off the grid” - in the sense of being far, far from the madding crowd, being as self sufficient as possible, and so on, not in the sense of being on the run from the law/debtors/whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/28 "2014-02-06T22:36:37Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I have whole books on this subject. There are huge areas of the U.S. by land area that are suitable for going off the grid and basically disappearing especially in the West. Alaska is an obvious choice but there are weather issues. Much of Nevada is practically deserted but you also have Idaho and Montana as favorite choices for this type of thing. Even more populated states like Texas (West Texas), Colorado outside of the cities and even parts of California have remote areas where nobody is going to find you if you are careful enough. On the East Coast, northern Maine is very isolated and it also has hundreds of inhabitable islands to choose from. Northern New Hampshire and Vermont have tons of remote land available as well. > > How remote do you want to be? Maine, New Hampshire, West Virginia, North Dakota, Wyoming, for starters. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/29 "2014-02-06T22:42:29Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > I think it takes more money to live “off” the grid, than on it. That’s why so few people do it. No. Basically living off the grid means the person is going to have to put out a great deal more effort–and the result being a lower standard of living. For example cutting wood yourself to heat your house with. This has a romantic appeal to a number of people (after you read Walden by Thoreau…) > **[Walden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walden)** > > Walden (/ˈwɔːldən/; first published as Walden; or, Life in the Woods) is an 1854 book by American transcendentalist writer Henry David Thoreau. The text is a reflection upon the author's simple living in natural surroundings. The work is part personal declaration of independence, social experiment, voyage of spiritual discovery, satire, and—to some degree—a manual for self-reliance. > Walden details Thoreau's experiences over the course of two years, two months, and two days in a cabin he built ... But most of the time this appeal vanishes after you try it for awhile. ---
**Author:** ![slowlearner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@slowlearner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slowlearner)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/30 "2014-02-07T00:15:20Z")
Before the morons running homeland security closed the border the Big Bend area of Texas was the ultimate place to drop off the grid in all its various meanings. Used to meet lots of people like “Just Jake” (no last name, has always been common out there) who worked odd times as a wrangler for wilderness trips, liked to have a few beers at the old Lajitas Store, then wade the river back to his safe haven in Mexico. Off the grid now means no utilities, very basic housing in the desert, wind and solar and a well if lucky, lots of barter and occasional jobs at restaurants and for outfitters. It’s a good life if you’re young, but bring your own girlfriend, womens are scarce out there… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/31 "2014-02-07T01:00:44Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > As long as you can pay your rent in cash, that really would be the ideal way to do it. I don’t think Walter White’s dissapearer really had much imagination. He put WW through a lot of needless suffering by holing him up in a frigid cabin in New Hampshire. As long as you can accept the fact that you can’t go outside, there’s no reason why you couldn’t hide out indefinitely in a major metropolitan area. I’m assuming that somebody going “off the grid” isn’t paying rent. They’re going to be squatting on somebody else’s property, whether it’s a national forest or a Manhattan subway tunnel. And I figure it’s a lot easier to “live off the land” in a city than it is in the wilderness. I’d rather survive by shoplifting from supermarkets than try to hunt down wild animals. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/32 "2014-02-07T01:52:10Z")
Read “One Man’s Wilderness” by Richard Proenneke. Living in the wilderness is hard goddamn work every single day. If you’re someplace where there is actual winter weather, you spend every single day cutting wood that will last through the cold months, making sure your cabin is going to stand up to it, planting and harvesting vegetables, canning whatever you grow, killing and preserving whatever meat/fish you can, and hoping to hell you don’t get sick or break a bone. It takes a strong will, boundless energy, and endless determination and patience to make a go of it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/33 "2014-02-07T02:44:32Z")
When choosing a place to “escape” to (off grid), I had a few requirements: Relatively inexpensive land (yet large acreage). Deep, fertile soil. Year round growing season. Small town, low crime rate area. Low population, but with enough people to buy, sell and trade local goods with. Ample rainfall for private collection in a catchment system. A stream with ample water flow for powering a small hydro electric system. Zero heating and A/C costs. I found these just north of Hilo on the Big Island. Temperatures range from highs in the mid 80’s to lows in the mid 60’s year round with over 200" of rain annually. Eight acres of land. Is it perfect? No, but it close enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/34 "2014-02-07T04:45:29Z")
> [@slowlearner](#): > > Before the morons running homeland security closed the border the Big Bend area of Texas was the ultimate place to drop off the grid in all its various meanings. Used to meet lots of people like “Just Jake” (no last name, has always been common out there) who worked odd times as a wrangler for wilderness trips, liked to have a few beers at the old Lajitas Store, then wade the river back to his safe haven in Mexico. Off the grid now means no utilities, very basic housing in the desert, wind and solar and a well if lucky, lots of barter and occasional jobs at restaurants and for outfitters. It’s a good life if you’re young, but bring your own girlfriend, womens are scarce out there… I suppose if you were there long term you would probably appear on the Border Patrol’s radar sooner rather than later, but short term crossing the river in Big Bend doesn’t seem any harder than it ever was. Edit: plus you don’t even need to cross over to Mexico to be off the grid in that area. I guess it depends on how ‘off’ you need to be. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/35 "2014-02-07T05:14:13Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > When choosing a place to “escape” to (off grid), I had a few requirements: > > Relatively inexpensive land (yet large acreage). > > Deep, fertile soil. > > Year round growing season. > > Small town, low crime rate area. > > Low population, but with enough people to buy, sell and trade local goods with. > > Ample rainfall for private collection in a catchment system. > > A stream with ample water flow for powering a small hydro electric system. > > Zero heating and A/C costs. > > I found these just north of Hilo on the Big Island. Temperatures range from highs in the mid 80’s to lows in the mid 60’s year round with over 200" of rain annually. Eight acres of land. > > Is it perfect? No, but it close enough for me. Land in Hawaii is cheap? ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/36 "2014-02-07T11:10:48Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > No. Basically living off the grid means the person is going to have to put out a great deal more effort–and the result being a lower standard of living. For example cutting wood yourself to heat your house with. You’re correct. What I meant to say was that living off the grid _with the normal comforts_ (power, heat, running water etc.) was more expensive, since you have to provide your own source. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/37 "2014-02-07T14:36:37Z")
Best place in the United States to drop off “The Grid” Drop it off on the way home. I’ll pick it up and put it over some bricks I’ve built around a pit in the ground. BBQ time. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/38 "2014-02-07T14:45:36Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > Land in Hawaii is cheap? Not in Hawaii generally, but apparently on Hilo [yes](http://www.landwatch.com/Hawaii_land_for_sale/Hilo) - provided you don’t need to be next to a paved road or have sewer or water access. The first listing is 18 acres for $20k. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/39 "2014-02-07T15:16:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Not in Hawaii generally, but apparently on Hilo [yes](http://www.landwatch.com/Hawaii_land_for_sale/Hilo) - provided you don’t need to be next to a paved road or have sewer or water access. The first listing is 18 acres for $20k. That is .18 acres, not 18 acres. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-place-in-the-united-states-to-drop-off-the-grid/680495/40 "2014-02-07T15:44:07Z")
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