# Best practices for requesting cites **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 24, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370 "2022-04-24T20:24:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/1 "2022-04-24T20:24:22Z")
Cites are important on the SDMB, especially in FQ/GD/PE. Even in the Pit, the readers want to know what the heck you’re talking about. Here’s how I think it should go: 1. Request a cite. 2. If none is provided after your request, or you think that the cite is faulty, post your own cite to make the point that you want to make. 3. If the conversation is still not productive (or to your liking), just drop it. In this thread, [Whats the legality of prosecuting someone for doing something that is illegal in their home state, but legal in another state - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legality-of-prosecuting-someone-for-doing-something-that-is-illegal-in-their-home-state-but-legal-in-another-state/963357/62) multiple posters are requesting cites multiple times each. This amounts to badgering another poster that you don’t agree with, and poor form, IMHO. ATMB question. Are there, or should there be, any guidelines (not rules) regarding this subject? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/2 "2022-04-24T20:31:29Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > This amounts to badgering another poster that you don’t agree with, and poor form, IMHO. Not if the claim is made multiple times, or multiple variations of the same claim is made, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/3 "2022-04-24T20:36:04Z")
I disagree that it’s badgering. I assert that it is establishing for the benefit of the nonparticipating reader that the individual making the assertions is unable to support them. On a message board, interactions between posters don’t happen in a vacuum. There is an audience. Insisting on citations serves the audience’s interest. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/4 "2022-04-24T20:56:52Z")
If someone makes a claim involving a legal matter, asking for a cite to back up the claim sounds pretty logical, whereas responding not with a cite but with a request to prove the opposite seems like a stall tactic. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/5 "2022-04-24T21:21:20Z")
Poster A: makes a claim Poster B: that’s not how the law works. Poster A: (paraphasing) it would be simpler to cite a case where it did happen. That’s shifting the burden away from Poster A. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/6 "2022-04-25T00:34:47Z")
That anyone would think that UltraVires is the victim in that thread is beyond rational belief. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/7 "2022-04-25T06:45:44Z")
**Ultra\_Vires** has been asking people in that thread to provide cites to rebut his argument based on the state police power. So far, no one has done so, choosing instead to rely on mockery. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/8 "2022-04-25T11:37:49Z")
In that particular case, states seem to be trying something novel, and, as @Northern_Piper and others pointed out in that thread, states have broad police power, so there’s no reason they can’t do it, and as it’s novel, there would be no existing cites. So, in that case, as UV and others explained, you can’t cite something that hasn’t happened yet, but you can describe similar circumstances, which posters in that thread did. I’m not trying to re-argue what happened in that thread. It’s not reasonable to ask for a cite for something that hasn’t happened yet, or a cite for someone’s opinion. It is reasonable to ask for a cite for a specific claim (masks work to control COVID, crime is at record highs in NYC, and so on). Hopefully, you won’t need to be asked, because you’ll make a claim and back it up with a cite. As far as best practices, I think it’s best to be polite and specific, and even provide a counter-cite if you think the poster is wrong: “Please provide a cite that crime is at record highs in NYC. This [citation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Citation) seems to show it was much higher in 1995, and only went higher until the late 70s” or whatever. I think specificity in the request is important, because posts often contain multiple claims, and maybe you’re misunderstanding the poster’s claim, so being specific can clear up that confusion quickly. Further, if you have a counter-cite, provide it – there’s no reason to be coy if you think the poster is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/9 "2022-04-25T15:03:18Z")
I’ll modify your list with my own recommendation to [avoid being considered trolling](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-that-end-of-democracy-talk/956796/135): 1. Request a cite. 2. If cites are provided, **acknowledge them and make a good faith effort and considering them**. 3. If the conversation is still not productive (or to your liking), just drop it. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/10 "2022-04-25T15:12:12Z")
Agreed with this list. It gets frustrating citing counterclaims and getting no acknowledgement – rather, the poster just moves on to the next thing. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/11 "2022-04-25T15:21:01Z")
I’ve even read a cite that countered a claim I was making, realized I was wrong, and acknowledged that. I know, I’m not Internetting properly, but sometimes that’s all you can do. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/12 "2022-04-25T22:36:34Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > - Request a cite. > - If none is provided after your request, or you think that the cite is faulty, post your own cite to make the point that you want to make. > - If the conversation is still not productive (or to your liking), just drop Counter When a reasonable (and I know that varies and is subjective) request for a cite is made, the original poster who made the claim should provide a cite, admit that they have no cite or admit their error. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2022, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/13 "2022-04-25T23:48:38Z")
Certain things, such as twitter, facebook, et al. are not valid cites, especially in FQ/GD. Some posters seem to think that other people’s opinions are also cites. They are not. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/14 "2022-04-26T00:11:59Z")
When they provide direct factual quotes specifically relevant to the question being discussed, they are valid whether you like it or not. Other posters don’t have to abide by your specific preferences for types of cites, and if you are going to dismiss huge swaths of the internet just because of your own preferences, you shouldn’t be surprised if your request for a cite is presumed disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/15 "2022-04-26T00:30:03Z")
Withdrawn. Not going to re-litigate it here. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/16 "2022-04-26T00:32:30Z")
You dismissed Twitter posts (and other sources, including news articles), that contained direct specific quotes from individuals that were specifically relevant to the discussion, over and over again. That’s why you were suspended. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/17 "2022-04-26T00:35:45Z")
By the way, here are a couple of posts in which you cited Twitter posts to support something you were saying: > [@Hunter Biden artwork attracts ethics scrutiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/292): > > According to one of CNN’s legal experts, this does present an ethics issue, because the White House was involved in drawing up the agreement between Hunter and the art dealer. Seems like the “but he’s just a private citizen, who cares,” argument falls flat when the WH involved itself in the agreement. > [@Trump pulled out of Paris Climate Accord to benefit Russia and Saudi Arabia](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-pulled-out-of-paris-climate-accord-to-benefit-russia-and-saudi-arabia/787912/40): > > Your posts in this thread are silly. PJ media is not MY source, it’s the first one I found on Google. But here’s the original: [https://twitter.com/TomSteyer?ref\_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author](https://twitter.com/TomSteyer?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) You have to scroll down to May 28th. Are you now denying that he said it? So you can probably see why your opinions on the validity of Twitter cites are greeted with skepticism. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/18 "2022-04-26T00:38:20Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Some posters seem to think that other people’s opinions are also cites. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/19 "2022-04-26T00:41:55Z")
Very funny. There are a lot of instances of people quoting articles clearly labeled “opinion” or “editorial” as if they were facts. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/20 "2022-04-26T00:43:16Z")
That’s a grossly dishonest and disingenous description of what’s going on in that thread. I certainly haven’t been mocking anyone, and neither have most of the people disagreeing with UV. Stranger said (emphasis added) > A state cannot prevent a non-convicted person from traveling to another state (in general; I’m sure you can contrive some situation in which it could invoke public health or another measure to invoke authority), cannot claim that someone is formulating ‘intent’ to commit an action that is not a crime in the jurisdiction in which the act occurs, and cannot pass laws regarding the legality of actions in other states. **There is actually a significant body of law about this** regarding liquor laws and other ‘blue laws’ with challenges to whether someone from one state can travel to another state to purchase liquor or prohibited items in that state (even if their intent is to transport the the purchases back across state lines in violation of the laws of the home state), and I am not aware of any challenge that has held up regarding the legal exchange in another state. I am hoping he will return with more detailed cites. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370.md?page=2)