# Best practices for requesting cites **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 24, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370 "2022-04-24T20:24:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/21 "2022-04-26T00:44:10Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Very funny. Not laughing. You made a vague, inflammatory accusation. Can we see a cite? ETA: if you’d rather withdraw your previous claim, I’d understand. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/22 "2022-04-26T00:48:42Z")
Opinion articles and editorials very often include facts and factual quotes meant to support the opinion being made. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/23 "2022-04-26T00:50:28Z")
The search engine kinda sucks, or more likely user error on my part. But there have been more than one thread in FQ/GD/PE where someone asks for a cite, and the response is a link to an opinion piece on NYT/WaPo/WSJ. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/24 "2022-04-26T00:51:26Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The search engine kinda sucks, or more likely user error on my part. Excuses are like . . . Again, put up or shut up. Please. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/25 "2022-04-26T00:51:41Z")
UV’s only argument there is “because I say so”. He hasn’t produced any cites showing that any courts have ever agreed with his interpretation, despite having been asked to do so multiple times. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/26 "2022-04-26T00:53:54Z")
Your hostility in this thread is unwarranted. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/27 "2022-04-26T00:57:02Z")
Ok, but why not link to the facts and factual quotes themselves, instead of the editorial one has read? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/28 "2022-04-26T00:58:10Z")
Granted, I’d only ask for some understanding, as I only became hostile when I read unsubstantiated claims. That bothers some people. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/29 "2022-04-26T01:01:29Z")
Sometimes those are the factual quotes - a writer interviews a politician, gets a quote from the politician, and uses that quote in the editorial or opinion piece they are writing. If you dismiss any and everything titled “editorial” or “opinion”, you are indeed dismissing some legitimate factual sources of quotes. Better, ISTM, to consider each cite on its own merits rather than dismissing vast swaths because of their title, website, or some other similarly cosmetic reason. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/30 "2022-04-26T01:11:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sometimes those are the factual quotes - a writer interviews a politician, gets a quote from the politician, and uses that quote in the editorial or opinion piece they are writing You’re right. A direct quote is factual. Most often, IME, editorials go well beyond that. An editorial (which is like 95% what someone else thinks about a subject) is not factual. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/31 "2022-04-26T01:18:39Z")
So you shouldn’t dismiss the whole category, but rather consider each cite on its own merits. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/32 "2022-04-26T01:19:28Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Your hostility in this thread is unwarranted On second reading, I’ll challenge your claim. Unwarranted is being used here as an adjective, meaning: 1)Unjustified 2)Unauthorized If you are saying my hostility is unjustified, show me your cite or withdraw your claim. I’ll apologize and sit down If you are saying my hostility is unauthorized, I’ll leave that to the mods to decide. Have you reported me? All I’m asking is for a cite to back up your (so far) baseless claim. In a thread about . . . requesting cites. ETA: New Oxford American Dictionary used for definition of “unwarranted”, just so we’re clear. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/33 "2022-04-26T01:58:09Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > If you are saying my hostility is unauthorized, I’ll leave that to the mods to decide. Have you reported me? All I’m asking is for a cite to back up your (so far) baseless claim. Unauthorized is certainly not my call. And report you? Why on earth would I? and for what? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/34 "2022-04-26T02:01:41Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why on earth would I? and for what? You seemed bothered by my hostility which apparently was caused by your continued refusal to provide a cite for or withdrawal of your so far baseless claim. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/35 "2022-04-26T02:04:05Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Unauthorized is certainly not my call. So then, your admitting that your claim that my hostility was unwarranted is not true, as you’ve neither shown it to be unjustified, nor unauthorized? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/36 "2022-04-26T22:41:06Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > This amounts to badgering another poster that you don’t agree with, and poor form, IMHO. > > ATMB question. Are there, or should there be, any guidelines (not rules) regarding this subject? Yes, there is such a rule: If you post a factual claim, be prepared to back it up with a citation. If someone asks for a citation, don’t take it personally, we’re trying to get to the facts here, and that’s how it’s done. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370/37 "2022-04-27T08:03:05Z")
@kayaker and @D_Anconia if you want to have a go at each other, do so in the Pit, not in ATMB. Let’s focus on the actual topic of this thread, please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-practices-for-requesting-cites/963370.md?page=1)