# Best Responses to New Atheists **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682 "2010-10-01T02:09:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/141 "2010-10-03T02:01:20Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > The best response? > > “I’m sorry, you are right” Hah. I like that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/142 "2010-10-03T03:00:45Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > First, is the premise correct? Could you cite that Dawkins actually believes that there are multiple universes, and not just hypothesizing about it as an interesting idea? He made the same claim in another thread that he linked to in this one. When I asked him for a cite, he failed to provide one. He has a history of pulling this type of dishonest shit and others have been banned for it. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/143 "2010-10-03T11:29:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > IT seems to me that you guys are the ones changing the subject. The question was never prove or disprove the existence of God. It was all about how to respond to a New Atheist. > > This is the same question. The only way to respond to an atheist is to prove the existence of God. Really? Even if I’m at a bus stop reading a good book? What if coffeespouse and I are having a ménage à trois with Taylor Swift, whereupon **SenorBeef** breaks through my bedroom wall like the Kool Aid man, saying, “I heard feminine voices shouting, **“Oh my God!”** and I had to enlighten you that’s just a superstitious delusion of weak minds.”? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/144 "2010-10-03T11:32:25Z")
It wouldn’t be the first time. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/145 "2010-10-03T13:08:38Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > > [@begbert2](#): > > > > I’m denying that the violent actions done by communists were because they were atheists. And I also deny that they were promoting atheism because they were atheists! They were promoting atheism because they were _communists_. > > Suppose I were to claim that elephants don’t exist. Then supposed that anytime you showed me real elephant or a picture or movie thereof or an elephant footprint or a pile of elephant dung or any other evidence for the existence of elephants, I responded that that particular elephant did not actually count as an elephant for some reason. > > In this thread, the question that we took up was whether the species ‘outspoken and confrontational atheists, prior to Dawkins & Co.’ actually existed. Well they did exist. I gave you the example of the pro-atheist groups in the Soviet Union. You say that that group doesn’t actually count. Likewise, I provided plenty of other examples in posts 46 and 60. If you were to acknowledge those, you’d doubtlessly come up with some reason why they don’t count either. But the species exists. That’s all that’s under debate here, and motivations are irrelevant. To say that these particular atheists were motivated by communism and therefore don’t count as confrontational atheists is like saying that an elephant motivated by hunger is not an elephant. > > > [@](#): > > > > And even if we bought the bullshit you’re spouting, I would think that _even you_ would see there to be some _slight_ difference between “writing books and giving talks about atheism” and “slaughtering christians in the name of really-communism-but-we’re-pretending-it’s-their-nongod-telling-them-to-do-it”. Which is why even _accounting_ for the slanderous bullshit, your statement “I see no basis for the claim that there’s anythign new about how Dawkins et. al. have aggressively promoted atheism in the past 6 years or so” remains well and truly in bizarre-land. Unless you really are trying to imply that it’s just as bad to write books about atheism as it is to slaughter theists wholesale in the name of the Party? > > The Soviets engaged in both mass-slaughter of Christians and in writing books and giving talks about atheism, as the cites I’ve given show. Therefore, when the new atheists give talks and write books about atheism, they’re doing something that the atheists of the Soviet Union did. More relevant to this thread, they are also doing something that atheists in England and America have been doing for a long time; I’ve already given plenty of examples and could easily give [plenty](http://openlibrary.org/books/OL6748576M/Sound_reason_versus_blind_faith) [more](http://www.adherents.com/people/ps/George_Bernard_Shaw.html). So far you’ve refused to acknowledge this point. Are you willing to acknowledge these examples or are you still going to insist that the confrontational attitude of the New Atheists is somehow different from the old atheists? One can go back in history and to the Crusades,and the killing of a lot of innocent people so the Isrealites could have some land,and to the Muslims killing people in Europe all in the name of religion. Belief is just that “Belief” not fact ,but the desire to have a protector or a Father who will look out for them. People who have killed doctors because of their preforming abortions can always find a way to justify their misdeeds. We are all just humans, deists, theists, or atheists. It is a matter of what one thinks they want, or need in their life. Some prefer to hope there is a Supreme Being, others do not find the need for one. To me the best response to an Atheist (or Theist) is: That is your right! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/146 "2010-10-03T13:11:26Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > What if coffeespouse and I are having a ménage à trois with Taylor Swift, whereupon **SenorBeef** breaks through my bedroom wall like the Kool Aid man, saying, “I heard feminine voices shouting, **“Oh my God!”** and I had to enlighten you that’s just a superstitious delusion of weak minds.”? If a guy in primary colors bursts though a solid wall and demands to have a theological discussion with you, well then that’s what you’d better do. Just humor him long enough and some other guy will burst through the other wall and start a fistfight with him; that’s how these things work. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/147 "2010-10-03T14:45:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > IT seems to me that you guys are the ones changing the subject. The question was never prove or disprove the existence of God. It was all about how to respond to a New Atheist. We’ve been given the defintion: and atheist who pushes his views on other people. The answer is simple. > > **"You claim you want theists to stop pushing their religion on you. So don’t push your beliefs on me** , whether you call them religion or not. Assuming you are aware of Christianity but reject it, I have no reason to try to convince you of anything. I’m just as aware of all the atheist arguments, but reject them, so **you have no reason to say anything to me."** > > This crap about trying to convince the other person is stupid. If you are sure enough of your beliefs to proselytize, then I’m not going to be able to convince you. It doesn’t matter if your beliefs are religious or not. Applause. Well said. It goes for both “sides”. I’m not interested. I have my own beliefs and unbeliefs, and they’re my business. I don’t try to “convert” you, you don’t try to “convert” me. In short, do what you want and let me do the same. I don’t want to hear all about “good news” or proof of whatever. Write your books supporting or attacking whatever got you panties in a bunch. I don’t care. Don’t bother me personally with your pamphlets, or “I’m gonna sit at your table at a restaurant and start a fucking prayer service” (it’s actually happened) or follow me down the street gibbering about your own version of “the gods”. Likewise don’t push the opposite side either. I don’t want to hear it. So write your books. Let them sit on the shelf. If I want to know what you say, I’ll read the book. Meanwhile stay away. Now if this “problem” is about some “new atheist” writing a book, get over it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/148 "2010-10-03T16:24:25Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It goes for both “sides”. I’m not interested. I have my own beliefs and unbeliefs, and they’re my business. I don’t try to “convert” you, you don’t try to “convert” me. In short, do what you want and let me do the same. I don’t want to hear all about “good news” or proof of whatever. > > Write your books supporting or attacking whatever got you panties in a bunch. I don’t care. Don’t bother me personally with your pamphlets, or “I’m gonna sit at your table at a restaurant and start a fucking prayer service” (it’s actually happened) or follow me down the street gibbering about your own version of “the gods”. Likewise don’t push the opposite side either. I don’t want to hear it. So write your books. Let them sit on the shelf. If I want to know what you say, I’ll read the book. Meanwhile stay away. You have a point. But it seems even-handed and fair and even warm and fuzzy to use the “both sides do it, it’s equally wrong” line. Not just in this debate, in lots of different debates, it’s easy to declare everyone equally guilty and move on. But really - I’d imagine most people would consider me pretty militant, but I almost never bring up the issue. I’m discussing it here, but this is specifically a threat about atheism, and I’ll do it in other threads about religion, but you’ll never see me randomly prosetylzing atheistic beliefs to people. Whereas religiously motivated actions tend to be so ubiquitous that they just seem normal. People saying they’ll pray for you, saying that whatever bad shit happened to you is okay because god has a plan, really just casually invoking their religion is extremely common. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/149 "2010-10-03T16:28:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > > > Perhaps you view this as a nitpick, but aren’t the “modules” in a/the “modular theory of mind” (mostly) metaphorical? > > Theoretical, not metaphorical… Yeah, I’ll cop to being overwhelmed by alliteration. Even better than “theoretical”, I think: > [@SenorBeef](#): > > And the “modules” you speak of aren’t literal, but are a logical concept, a way to understand them. And even better than “logical concept”, I think, is “logical construct”. ---
**Author:** ![Snag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Snag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snag)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/150 "2010-10-03T17:19:37Z")
So maybe someone can help me understand \*\*ITR champion’s \*\*logic. If we woke up tomorrow and the US had officially become a state sponsor of Islam, or Judaism, or Buddhism, making it the nation’s official recognized religion then that would make all of us Muslims, Jews or Buddhists, right? And everything the nation did after that would be caused by the states religion, all other criteria fall away, true? Furthermore \*\*ITR champion \*\* would immediately renounce his / her current faith and would recognize themselves as a member of the state religion. Because that’s how it happened in Soviet Russia or Communist China, right? Under state sponsored religion everyone accepts the state’s viewpoint and is complicit. I thought one’s religious belief or lack there of strictly had to do with their personal choice but maybe I have that wrong. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/151 "2010-10-03T20:23:52Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But really - I’d imagine most people would consider me pretty militant, but I almost never bring up the issue. I’m discussing it here, but this is specifically a threat about atheism, and I’ll do it in other threads about religion, but you’ll never see me randomly prosetylzing atheistic beliefs to people. > > Whereas religiously motivated actions tend to be so ubiquitous that they just seem normal. People saying they’ll pray for you, saying that whatever bad shit happened to you is okay because god has a plan, really just casually invoking their religion is extremely common. “God bless you”, when you sneeze is fine. If you get sick and someone says “I’ll pray for you” that’s fine. An atheist could say “Gesundheit (health)” and that’s just as cool. But, I don’t want to be converted or proseltyzed (however it’s spelled) or get the hard sell. I have no use for the mititant “recruiters” of any faith (and I’m including “hardcore atheist” in there too). I don’t want someone “selling” any of it to me. If I wanna know, I will ask. The problem is, people decide their way is the only way… the only right way and the only way that should be tolerated and allowed. Nonsense. “Are you a christian?” Ummmmm OK, if I say yeah, then what. Dollars to donuts, it’s the wrong religion or the wrong denomination, or the wrong church / preacher within the denomination. Who gives a %#$@ Actually, I’ve never had an atheist try to proselytize. I like that. Too bad the Bible thumpers can’t behave the same way - especially when they don’t even know what’s in the book they’re pushing. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/152 "2010-10-03T20:48:27Z")
This “multiple universe” theory – is that like Stephen King’s _Dark Tower_ series? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/153 "2010-10-03T20:54:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > This “multiple universe” theory – is that like Stephen King’s _Dark Tower_ series? It’s sort of like the Marvel Multiverse in the comic books. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/154 "2010-10-03T22:17:44Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > Theoretical, not metaphorical… > > Yeah, I’ll cop to being overwhelmed by alliteration. Even better than “theoretical”, I think: > > > [@SenorBeef](#): > > > > And the “modules” you speak of aren’t literal, but are a logical concept, a way to understand them. > > And even better than “logical concept”, I think, is “logical construct”. Hmmmm, no. That’s the sort of thing that gets you quoted in books and articles about “Silly Things People Used to Believe”, like the people who used to claim that atoms and subatomic particles could never be anything other than mathematical abstractions. “Theoretical” is the right term. > [@SteveG1](#): > > > [@Guinastasia](#): > > > > This “multiple universe” theory – is that like Stephen King’s _Dark Tower_ series? > > It’s sort of like the Marvel Multiverse in the comic books. 🆒 Scientists at least occasionally use the same term I understand. ---
**Author:** ![Snag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Snag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snag)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/155 "2010-10-03T22:37:02Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > > [@SenorBeef](#): > > > > But really - I’d imagine most people would consider me pretty militant, but I almost never bring up the issue. I’m discussing it here, but this is specifically a threat about atheism, and I’ll do it in other threads about religion, but you’ll never see me randomly prosetylzing atheistic beliefs to people. > > > > Whereas religiously motivated actions tend to be so ubiquitous that they just seem normal. People saying they’ll pray for you, saying that whatever bad shit happened to you is okay because god has a plan, really just casually invoking their religion is extremely common. > > “God bless you”, when you sneeze is fine. If you get sick and someone says “I’ll pray for you” that’s fine. An atheist could say “Gesundheit (health)” and that’s just as cool. But, I don’t want to be converted or proseltyzed (however it’s spelled) or get the hard sell. I have no use for the mititant “recruiters” of any faith (and I’m including “hardcore atheist” in there too). I don’t want someone “selling” any of it to me. If I wanna know, I will ask. > > The problem is, people decide their way is the only way… the only right way and the only way that should be tolerated and allowed. Nonsense. “Are you a christian?” Ummmmm OK, if I say yeah, then what. Dollars to donuts, it’s the wrong religion or the wrong denomination, or the wrong church / preacher within the denomination. Who gives a %#$@ > > Actually, I’ve never had an atheist try to proselytize. I like that. Too bad the Bible thumpers can’t behave the same way - especially when they don’t even know what’s in the book they’re pushing. Likewise here with the possible exception of speaking in instances when someone tries to legislate their religious views. When they would impede on the rights or welfare of others such as on gays, pregnant women, or trying to institute something like ID as science when it clearly as not, I will speak to those who I believe either are on the fence or agree with my views on the separation of church and state who whom may not be bothered to vote against such legislation. Honestly I have mostly found myself in extensive discussion on line more than face to face with individuals. The funny thing is I rarely need to identify myself as an atheist to do so although I have no problem doing so if need be. Also when people sneeze I will often say ‘Godzilla’. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/156 "2010-10-03T22:43:26Z")
> [@Snag](#): > > > [@SteveG1](#): > > > > “God bless you”, when you sneeze is fine. If you get sick and someone says “I’ll pray for you” that’s fine. An atheist could say “Gesundheit (health)” and that’s just as cool. But, I don’t want to be converted or proseltyzed (however it’s spelled) or get the hard sell. I have no use for the mititant “recruiters” of any faith (and I’m including “hardcore atheist” in there too). I don’t want someone “selling” any of it to me. If I wanna know, I will ask. > > > > The problem is, people decide their way is the only way… the only right way and the only way that should be tolerated and allowed. Nonsense. “Are you a christian?” Ummmmm OK, if I say yeah, then what. Dollars to donuts, it’s the wrong religion or the wrong denomination, or the wrong church / preacher within the denomination. Who gives a %#$@ > > > > Actually, I’ve never had an atheist try to proselytize. I like that. Too bad the Bible thumpers can’t behave the same way - especially when they don’t even know what’s in the book they’re pushing. > > Likewise here with the possible exception of speaking in instances when someone tries to legislate their religious views. When they would impede on the rights or welfare of others such as on gays, pregnant women, or trying to institute something like ID as science when it clearly as not, I will speak to those who I believe either are on the fence or agree with my views on the separation of church and state who whom may not be bothered to vote against such legislation. Honestly I have mostly found myself in extensive discussion on line more than face to face with individuals. The funny thing is I rarely need to identify myself as an atheist to do so although I have no problem doing so if need be. > > Also when people sneeze I will often say ‘Godzilla’. 🙂 In the case of the underlined, I would expect and encourage you to oppose them. They are trying to make their way the only way. That’s unacceptable to me and I’m against it. I’m not an atheist, but I’m not a very devout anything else either. I’m more of a LeaveMeAlone-ist. Godzilla be with you. And also with you. Forever and ever, amen 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/157 "2010-10-03T22:45:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > Scientists at least occasionally use the same term I understand. [/QUOTE] Sometimes they do. ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/158 "2010-10-03T23:47:36Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > > [@Guinastasia](#): > > > > This “multiple universe” theory – is that like Stephen King’s _Dark Tower_ series? > > It’s sort of like the Marvel Multiverse in the comic books. 🆒 I live in the “What If…?” marvel universe. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/159 "2010-10-04T00:08:13Z")
mate you believe what you want to believe and I will believe what I want to believe. Oh and shut up and leave me alone you are worse than reformed smokers. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682/160 "2010-10-04T00:12:59Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > mate you believe what you want to believe and I will believe what I want to believe. > > Oh and shut up and leave me alone you are worse than reformed smokers. If you think that there’s no reason to believe true things and disbelieve false things, then you’re wrong. By the way, I’ve never been religious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-responses-to-new-atheists/555682.md?page=9)