# Best stories in which the bad guys win **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591 "2010-06-09T23:21:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/1 "2010-06-09T23:21:07Z")
I don’t necessarily mean stories in which the protagonist fails in his or her aim. I mean stories in which there is a clear demarcation between good and evil in the story, and in which the evil side comes out ahead at the end. We needn’t restrict ourselves to epic tales of virtue versus vice; small-scale evil counts too, as long as the bad guys take the crown at the end. In other words, _My Best Friend’s Wedding_ does not count, because though the movie makes no bones about the fact that Jules (Julia Roberts’ character) is in the wrong, she does not succeed in ruining the wedding or stealing her best friend from his bride. Contrariwise, _Juliette_, by the Marquis de Sade, does count, because the innocent and virtuous lose out in the end. Thoughts, anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/2 "2010-06-09T23:32:03Z")
_Empire Strikes Back_ ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/3 "2010-06-09T23:38:26Z")
The movie [_Payback_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120784/) although there are no good guys just less bad.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/4 "2010-06-09T23:42:21Z")
_The Parallax View_ ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/5 "2010-06-09T23:49:43Z")
**The Usual Suspects**. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/6 "2010-06-09T23:49:43Z")
_Rosemary’s Baby_ ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/7 "2010-06-09T23:52:54Z")
**Snatch** is full of baddies and a few ehhhh…not so bad. It also has one of the best villians EVAR in the form of Bricktop. Very quoteable film. zee germans? ---
**Author:** ![Sateryn76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Sateryn76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sateryn76)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/8 "2010-06-10T00:16:13Z")
The Bible ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/9 "2010-06-10T00:27:10Z")
_Brazil_. The protagonist also has a very unfortunate ending that, in retrospect, is really the best possible he could have in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Spoonful_of_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/10 "2010-06-10T00:47:24Z")
_Seven._ No contest. Next question, please. “Become vengeance, David. Become WRATH!” Still gives me the shiveries. And _Snatch_ is one of my all-time favorite movies but… (slight spoilers, I suppose) I wouldn’t say the bad guys won. Fact is, _nobody_ really won, except Mickey… kinda. Fact is, there weren’t really any clear-cut protagonists and antagonists in that film at all. Brick Top was definitely closest to the latter (I’ll never look at pigs the same way again), but he certainly didn’t come out on… top. You could say Turkish and Tommy were the closest to protagonists but their story never really concluded either. You just know Avi is going to pay them a visit moments after the credits stopped rolling. That’s what so awesome about that film. It just keeps on a-going. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/11 "2010-06-10T00:49:46Z")
Does the story have to be fictional? If not, I nominate [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=213577). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/12 "2010-06-10T00:53:03Z")
**1984 Chinatown Blackadder Goes Forth Force of Evil Diary of Anne Frank House of Cards/To Play the King** (BBC TV series). ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/13 "2010-06-10T01:02:07Z")
I’m going to regret this perhaps, but… **Frailty** ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/14 "2010-06-10T01:03:55Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > **The Usual Suspects**. Seconded, that’s what I came in to say. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/15 "2010-06-10T01:10:43Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > _Empire Strikes Back_ I was actually thinking of ESB when I began the thread, but I don’t think it qualifies. Darth Vader is clearly the villain here, and he doesn’t get what he wants: Luke’s corruption. Yeah, Han Solo is the captive of Boba Fett at the end and on his way to Jabba, but I doubt Vader or the Emperor gives a damn what happens to Solo anyway. ESB’s pretty much a tie. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/16 "2010-06-10T01:11:54Z")
> [@Sateryn76](#): > > The Bible Seriously, why? Great Debates is right down the hall. So’s the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/17 "2010-06-10T01:12:46Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > **1984 > Chinatown > Blackadder Goes Forth > Force of Evil > Diary of Anne Frank > House of Cards/To Play the King** (BBC TV series). Great choices, here 🙂 Though I’d point out that [SPOILER] Urquhart does get his in the last series. [/SPOILER] ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/18 "2010-06-10T01:15:45Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > Does the story have to be fictional? If not, I nominate [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=213577). Yes, it has to be fictional. If I’d wanted to start a thread about how the real world is full of misery and pain, I would have started a thread in MSPIMS entitled “The Real World is Full of Misery & Pain.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/19 "2010-06-10T01:15:54Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > I’m going to regret this perhaps, but… **Frailty** Eh, that’s a fair one. Sure, it seems that the FBI agent really did kill his mother. But then, the religious fanatic is a religious fanatic and serial killer. Even if the guy’s visions were all legit - and the movie makes it pretty clear they were - we don’t kill people for murder. Not without a trial in which they have a chance to bring out exculpatory factors, and usually not ever. Even if God is telling him to do it - that’s an indictment of God, not an excuse for cold-blooded murder. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/20 "2010-06-10T01:20:47Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Yes, it has to be fictional. If I’d wanted to start a thread about how the real world is full of misery and pain, I would have started a thread in MSPIMS entitled “The Real World is Full of Misery & Pain.” Well I linked to it anyway. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591.md?page=2)