# Best stories in which the bad guys win **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591 "2010-06-09T23:21:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/41 "2010-06-10T12:18:47Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > And **Blackadder Goes Forth** doesn’t really count. Nobody in the series is evil, just grossly incompetent. I think the reference was to Edmund, George, Percy, and Baldrick getting shot by the Hun. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/42 "2010-06-10T12:28:04Z")
_**[Nightwatch](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0403358/)**_ ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/43 "2010-06-10T12:36:34Z")
No mention of **Watchmen** yet? It’s certainly arguable. Jack Williamson’s **With Folded Hands/The Humanoids** ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/44 "2010-06-10T12:52:25Z")
**A.I.** perhaps? I was also going to say\*\* Fallen\*\*, but it’s been mentioned already. ---
**Author:** ![Peanut7316](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@Peanut7316](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut7316)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/45 "2010-06-10T12:53:15Z")
How about **Munich**? Or it could be argued that there are no good or bad, just varying shades of gray. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/46 "2010-06-10T12:55:09Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > **The Usual Suspects**. “The devil’s best trick is to persuade you that he doesn’t exist!” Also, The house always wins…from, The Shining ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/47 "2010-06-10T12:56:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Dexter, IMHO, is a good guy. In fact, he may well be the most moral character on TV - while other protagonists are instinctively good, Dexter has made a conscious decision to be so. That’s a valid point, but he still kills people for pleasure and accepted modern morality in the Western World makes no allowance for the guilt or innocence of the victim. By that standard he is clearly ‘evil’ IMO, even if he’s a nice person. > [@](#): > > =sigmagril]I think the reference was to Edmund, George, Percy, and Baldrick getting shot by the Hun. Fair enough. Personally I would contend that ‘The Hun’ don’t really count as ‘bad guys’, especially in a **Blackadder Goes Forth** since above all it was about the pointlessness of The Great War. ---
**Author:** ![Ronald\_C.Semone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cc9497/32.png) [@Ronald\_C.Semone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_C.Semone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/48 "2010-06-10T13:05:07Z")
Eugene Sue’s _The Wandering Jew_ Stephen King’s _Salem’s Lot_ ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/49 "2010-06-10T13:46:37Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > **The Usual Suspects**. That’s the first movie that came to mind, but I’m not certain that the cops in this case are unambiguously “good guys”. Kujan’s MO seems to be framing suspects he doesn’t like. He threatens Verbal (repeatedly) with false exposure as an informant–certain death on the streets OR in prison. In what is almost a throwaway line, he reveals that he (or other law enforcement) had already convicted people of crimes he knew to be committed by Dean Keaton. I wouldn’t call the cops “good guys” in **The Usual Suspects**. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/50 "2010-06-10T14:44:20Z")
_Blake’s 7_ ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/51 "2010-06-10T14:49:09Z")
Harlan Ellison’s _I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream_ (which, as I always mention, would be a great title for a Dilbert book.) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/52 "2010-06-10T15:00:33Z")
Depending on your definition, “Vintage Season” by C.L. Moore (mostly) and Henry Kuttner (possibly not). Robert Silverberg’s “Passengers” “The Screwfly Solution” by Racoona Sheldon “Press Enter ” by John Varley ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/53 "2010-06-10T15:04:21Z")
No Way Out might well count. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/54 "2010-06-10T15:04:42Z")
Not exactly bad guys, but …\*\* Three Kings\*\* is morally ambiguious. (and an excellent movie.) Another one, where you ( me) always roots for the bad guys and you don’t realize they are bad guys because a)they are slick b) hot c) both and a and b is **The Ocean’s 11 franchise**. They get a pass on their crime because a) they are hot and stuff and b) they are robbing a casino, which has a buttload of money anyways so boo-yah. If you think about the characters and the con man careers, they’ve probably screwed over plenty of regular people and decent people to hone their skills to that level. But, hey, they are going after the Bellagio, and they’ll make back that cash in a week, so it’s all good and stuff. And the ‘bad guy’ in the film is actually the ‘good guy’ who is Andy Garcia. Outta curiosity, who were you thinkin’ of hittin’? ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/55 "2010-06-10T15:06:29Z")
**Ferris Bueller**. If you think about Ferris from an adult perspective, he is a manipulative narcissitic ahole. From a teen perspective, we all want to be like Ferris. In the end, he won. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/56 "2010-06-10T15:13:16Z")
**Dr. Phibes Rises Again.** Oh! and the original **The Wicker Man**. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/57 "2010-06-10T15:53:24Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Oh! and the original **The Wicker Man**. Kind of, but it is implied that Lord Summerisle will be on the bonfire next year if they have another bad harvest. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/58 "2010-06-10T16:08:36Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Kind of, but it is implied that Lord Summerisle will be on the bonfire next year if they have another bad harvest. Not just implied, but threatened/prophesied by Sgt. Howie himself. And Summerisle shows a bit of worry at his words. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/59 "2010-06-10T16:19:30Z")
**Northern Lights/The Golden Compass** , by Philip Pullman. (The book; not the horrible abortion of a movie.) ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591/60 "2010-06-10T16:52:15Z")
> [@Number](#): > > _As Good As It Gets_ > _You’ve Got Mail_ > > These are both movies where the male protagonists are selfish jerks whose behavior borders on the outright evil. They go through their respective stories unredeemed other than by one or two nice acts which they undertake for entirely self-serving reasons. Yet somehow, apparently by sole virtue of the fact that they are in ostensible romantic comedies, they end up getting the girl. > > They get what they want, and they’re still jerks. We’re supposed to be ok with this. I, for one, am not. See also: _High Fidelity_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-stories-in-which-the-bad-guys-win/542591.md?page=4)