# Best Subtle Moment in a Movie **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 8, 2007, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899 "2007-10-08T03:21:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Moonchild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Moonchild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonchild)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2007, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/121 "2007-10-10T15:11:51Z")
[QUOTE=Hypno-Toad] That particular cemetary is not just for guys who died on the beach on D-Day. Guys who died inland days or weeks after D-Day are buried there too. And I think it was intentional misdirection to make you think that the old man was Capt. Miller. Although if you look closely, the old man is wearing a 101st Airborne pin. [/QUOTE] Thank you for clearing that up, Toad. And an excellent point, Nemo, about the guilt laid on Ryan. That note always hit off-key for me as well. Dude earned it by just being there! Earn THIS, pal. ---
**Author:** ![NailBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NailBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NailBunny)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/122 "2007-10-10T16:28:41Z")
[QUOTE=sciurophobic] In _Pulp Fiction_ Vincent and Mia did not win the dance contest. There’s a scene with Bruce Willis where the radio is on and you can hear it announced that the dance trophy was stolen. [/QUOTE] HA! Really? I have seen that movie probably 200 times and never noticed that. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/123 "2007-10-10T16:48:02Z")
[QUOTE=sciurophobic] In _Pulp Fiction_ Vincent and Mia did not win the dance contest. There’s a scene with Bruce Willis where the radio is on and you can hear it announced that the dance trophy was stolen. [/QUOTE] Cool. Think it’s time for me to see it for the 201st time too. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2007, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/124 "2007-10-10T16:52:09Z")
In _The Princess Bride_, right after Westley is killed, the kid interrupts his grandfater. He’s sure that it must be wrong. With Westley dead, who’s going to kill Prince Humperdinck? The grandfather tells him that “nobody kills Humperdinck. Humperdinck lives.” But he says it rather offhandedly. I always watched that scene as the grandfather basically saying “don’t interrupt, relax, you’re enjoying the story, let me finish.” But at some point I noticed that he was telling the truth. At the end of the story, Humperdinck is still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/125 "2007-10-10T16:53:56Z")
I’ve mentioned this one before. Mike Leigh’s _Topsy Turvy_ is a cinematic dissertation on the process of artistic creativity. It takes as its centerpiece the breakdown of the partnership between librettist W.S. Gilbert and composer Arthur Sullivan in 1884, and the events that subsequently lead them to their greatest triumph, _The Mikado_. Having been a performer in Gilbert & Sullivan circles for over ten years, I can testify to the cries of “oh joy, oh rapture” that erupted among the rankes of the Inner Brotherhood when this film was released in 1999. Of special note were the many, many subtle touches the filmmakers inserted that were unlikely to be noticed by anyone but the devotees of Savoy Opera. 1. The filmmakers went to a great deal of effort to cast actors who bore more than a passing resemblance to the historical personages they play, even though this detail was bound to be lost on the majority of the audience. Take, for example, the character of Richard Temple, the comic bass-baritone who first originated the roles of The Pirate King (_The Pirates of Penzance_), Dick Deadeye (_H.M.S. Pinafore_ and The Mikado (_The Mikado_ (duh)) - The real [Richard Temple](http://pinafore.www3.50megs.com/ggymik03.html) - Temple as played by [Timothy Spall](http://www.sensesofcinema.com/images/05/37/topsy_turvy1.jpg). Even more striking is the casting of George Grossmith, the D’Oyly Carte’s leading patter baritone. - The real [George Grossmith](http://pinafore.www3.50megs.com/ggymik01.html). - Grossmith as played by [Martin Savage](http://www.cris.com/~oakapple/gasdisc/images/mdtopsy-7.jpg). 1. Makeup, sets and costumes used in the theater scenes are designed to replicate those of the original productions. There is a scene, that takes place backstage during a performance, when two of the company’s lead actresses are having a private discussion. While watching, I first wondered why one of the two was dressed as a housemaid. It finally occurred to me that the singer in question was in costume for the role of Mrs. Partlett in _The Sorcerer_, the show being performed at that point in the story. This, despite the fact that you never actually saw her onstage in the role. 2. The incidental music, most of which is adapted from various Gilbert & Sullivan works, often serves as a perfect backdrop to the action – but the care with which these selections were made only becomes obvious _if_ you know the words that go along with the music. Two examples are particularly fitting. ---
**Author:** ![Ferd\_Burfel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@Ferd\_Burfel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferd_Burfel)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/126 "2007-10-10T17:58:42Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] Actually, that would be 1985, not 1982. [/QUOTE] See? This is the problem with time traveling. Dates wind up just being numbers. Of course it’s 1985. I think my organic numeric processor was scrambled when it was hit with 1.21 gigawatts of power. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2007, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/127 "2007-10-10T18:43:30Z")
Three pages in, and no mentions of the most subtle movie of all time - “Brokeback Mountain.” I don’t think I can list all the subtle moments, there were so many of them. Maybe just the one that most people miss; Ennis cared about Jack from very early on, as you can see in his eating of beans and going, “Mmmm,” from enjoying them, and then going to get the food supplies and saying no more beans, because Jack doesn’t like them. My absolute favourite is when Ennis is having a sponge bath, and Jack is achingly NOT LOOKING AT HIM. (Or Jack driving a “Versatile” tractor. 😃 ) When people tell me they didn’t get any of this stuff from the movie, they didn’t get that the guys were in love, that the movie just bored them, I feel like asking them to watch it with me, and I’ll point out everything they missed. Ang Lee is a god among subtle movie directors. ---
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2007, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/128 "2007-10-10T20:21:13Z")
As long as some television ones have already enter the fray. The current show NCIS is one of my favorites. One of the leading characters is David McCallum, who is now 74 years old. He plays the resident medical expert Dr. Mallard (aka Ducky) who does the autopsies - similar to CSI for those not familiar with the show. He has a number of female admirers on the show. In one episode the lead actor is asked, “What did Dr Mallard look like when he was younger?”. The response “Illya Kuryakin” was tossed out and left the office crew puzzled. That’s the name of the character he played in “The Man From U.N.C.L.E.” 40 years ago!! I think I’m the only person in my whole company who was old enough to enjoy that simple, single line. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/129 "2007-10-10T20:38:31Z")
I just re-watched [Airplane!](http://imdb.com/title/tt0080339/) for the first time in almost 20 years last night. Something I realized that I had never thought of before was that the plane is part of “TA Airlines”, which is supposed to be ‘Trans America’ Airlines, but could just as easliy be “Tits & Ass” Airlines. I have no idea if that was intentional, or just me reading something into it. But given the nature of this flick, I wouldn’t be surprised if it they really meant it that way. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2007, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/130 "2007-10-10T21:06:09Z")
[QUOTE=Moonchild] And an excellent point, Nemo, about the guilt laid on Ryan. That note always hit off-key for me as well. Dude earned it by just being there! Earn THIS, pal. [/QUOTE] On the other hand, think about it from Miller’s perspective… he was given a mission that was in many ways just a jerk-off mission to save a guy he didn’t know. He saw every member of his squad die, one by one, some of them slowly. And now he’s dying. I don’t so much see what he’s saying to Ryan as being “hey, you’re a big loser and not worth us having died. So you’d now better go out and turn your life around and solve cancer, or we will have died in vain”, but more like “we all died for you… so go out and live well for us, to make our sacrifice mean something”. Not so much “you must be THIS virtuous to earn this rescue” as “you’re living for all of us… please make something of your life”. Sure, Ryan stresses and worries about it and wonders if he’s been good enough. But, hey, at least he didn’t DIE. And there’s no reason not to think that he actually DID leave a better life than he otherwise might have. And in any case, what Miller said seems like a perfectly reasonable thing for a dying person to say. Are you mad at the character? Or at the filmmaker? ( **Saving Private Ryan** is high on the list of movies-most-unfairly-bashed-on-the-SDMB, imho, right behind **Titanic** and the Spielberg **War of the Worlds**.) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/131 "2007-10-11T00:43:30Z")
In the BMW Short Film [Star](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK87YLmagt4), probably one of the least subtle of the _Hire_ series of films starring Clive Owen, it took me something like four years to realize that… Glen hired the Driver to put the Star in her place. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/132 "2007-10-11T02:05:53Z")
[QUOTE=Fir na tine] …The current show NCIS is one of my favorites. One of the leading characters is David McCallum, who is now 74 years old. … In one episode the lead actor is asked, “What did Dr Mallard look like when he was younger?”. The response “Illya Kuryakin” was tossed out and left the office crew puzzled. That’s the name of the character he played in “The Man From U.N.C.L.E.” 40 years ago!! I think I’m the only person in my whole company who was old enough to enjoy that simple, single line. [/QUOTE] I caught that one right away. I had to explain it to my daughter, though. Damn, I’m old. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/133 "2007-10-11T03:15:54Z")
Finally remembered one. In _The Ref_, one of the best Christmas movies ever, Denis Leary plays a safecracker that takes a couple hostage after his heist goes wrong. As there’s company coming for dinner on Christmas Eve, he dresses up in suit and tie and pretends to be their therapist, Dr. Wong. In the dining room, on a buffet, there’s a chocolate manger scene. In the middle of a conversation, Leary picks up the chocolate Christ child and takes a chomp, then stops. It’s obvious the chocolate is years old, and he’s only discovered that because of the taste. Then he mutters “Jesus,” in disgust and throws the rest of the chocolate away. ---
**Author:** ![TripleTee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TripleTee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TripleTee)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/134 "2007-10-11T04:37:14Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] On the other hand, think about it from Miller’s perspective… he was given a mission that was in many ways just a jerk-off mission to save a guy he didn’t know. He saw every member of his squad die, one by one, some of them slowly. And now he’s dying. I don’t so much see what he’s saying to Ryan as being “hey, you’re a big loser and not worth us having died. So you’d now better go out and turn your life around and solve cancer, or we will have died in vain”, but more like “we all died for you… so go out and live well for us, to make our sacrifice mean something”. Not so much “you must be THIS virtuous to earn this rescue” as “you’re living for all of us… please make something of your life”./QUOTE] Thank you for pointing this out. I wanted to respond to the previous post but you summed up what I was thinking. Ryan was not living with guilt all those years. He just wanted to know that the men who had died in his place had not died meaningless deaths. He knew that just having been in war or even fought alongside the men who died was not enough; they died FOR HIM, not just in some vague, metaphoric way, but in a real, tangible sense. And it was apparent, at least to me, that he wanted to live his life with that thought always guiding his actions. That’s why he asked his wife if he was a good man and had lived a good life. And I think in Spielberg’s eyes, that is a question we all ought to ask ourselves as well. Sorry for the hijack. I just really love that movie. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/135 "2007-10-11T12:35:01Z")
[QUOTE=phouka] Finally remembered one. In _The Ref_, one of the best Christmas movies ever, Denis Leary plays a safecracker that takes a couple hostage after his heist goes wrong. As there’s company coming for dinner on Christmas Eve, he dresses up in suit and tie and pretends to be their therapist, Dr. Wong. In the dining room, on a buffet, there’s a chocolate manger scene. In the middle of a conversation, Leary picks up the chocolate Christ child and takes a chomp, then stops. It’s obvious the chocolate is years old, and he’s only discovered that because of the taste. Then he mutters “Jesus,” in disgust and throws the rest of the chocolate away. [/QUOTE] What was subtle about that?\* ETA: \*Not meant in a smart-ass way, just thinking that it may still be too subtle for me to see the subtlety. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/136 "2007-10-11T12:44:10Z")
I can see the subtleness if it were never mentioned elsewhere that it is several years old: you’d only know from his reactions. But never having seen the movie I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/137 "2007-10-11T15:07:52Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] On the other hand, think about it from Miller’s perspective… he was given a mission that was in many ways just a jerk-off mission to save a guy he didn’t know. He saw every member of his squad die, one by one, some of them slowly. And now he’s dying. I don’t so much see what he’s saying to Ryan as being “hey, you’re a big loser and not worth us having died. So you’d now better go out and turn your life around and solve cancer, or we will have died in vain”, but more like “we all died for you… so go out and live well for us, to make our sacrifice mean something”. Not so much “you must be THIS virtuous to earn this rescue” as “you’re living for all of us… please make something of your life”. Sure, Ryan stresses and worries about it and wonders if he’s been good enough. But, hey, at least he didn’t DIE. And there’s no reason not to think that he actually DID leave a better life than he otherwise might have. And in any case, what Miller said seems like a perfectly reasonable thing for a dying person to say. Are you mad at the character? Or at the filmmaker? ( **Saving Private Ryan** is high on the list of movies-most-unfairly-bashed-on-the-SDMB, imho, right behind **Titanic** and the Spielberg **War of the Worlds**.) [/QUOTE] The other thing is that only 2 of his squad members died as part of the “Save Ryan” mission - Vin Diesel and Giovanni Ribisi. The rest died for an actual military purpose - defending the town the 82nd was holding and keeping the bridge out of German hands. True, they were there because of the jerk-off mission, but most of the squad died doing something more useful than sending Ryan back to his mother. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/138 "2007-10-11T16:39:26Z")
I’m still working on this one: Memento Doesn’t Leonard Shelby appear for a fraction of a second in the Long term care facility / ward ? (As opposed to Sammy Jenkis) But then, if we were to talk about fraction of a second moments, I think Memento is filled with them. ::Meeko crosses his fingers and hopes he doesnt hijack the thread:: Fight Club I noticed, after perhaps the second or third time, that the film actually had imposed images in it. I paused the DVD after a WTF!? moment. Only when the plot got around to talking about imposed pornography did I get my answer. Wallace and Gromit Gromit reads a lot of books and newpapers that reference dogs The Republic by Pluto Dog reads paper (headline) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/139 "2007-10-11T16:57:31Z")
[QUOTE=Meeko] Fight Club I noticed, after perhaps the second or third time, that the film actually had imposed images in it. I paused the DVD after a WTF!? moment. Only when the plot got around to talking about imposed pornography did I get my answer. [/QUOTE] That reminds me of one that I’ve heard about, but haven’t checked out yet: according to David Fincher, there’s a Starbucks cup in every shot in **Fight Club**. He was trying to make some point about the pervasiveness of consumerism, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Dragwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dragwyr/32/2855_2.png) [@Dragwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragwyr)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899/140 "2007-10-11T17:03:12Z")
Shrek 2: When a transformed Donkey and Shrek (Donkey is a stallion and shrek is handsome) are sitting in the bar sulking, the bartender asks them, “Hey, why the long face?” This is a reference to the well known bad joke about the horse in a bar that was asked the same question. NOBODY in the theater got it except me. Monsters Inc.: At the end of the film when little Boo is showing Sully her room, she hands him one of her toys and it is the Clown Fish from their next movie, “Finding Nemo”. Most any movie made by Pixar will have a lot of subtle references. I can’t remember all of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-subtle-moment-in-a-movie/421899.md?page=8)