# Best works with the dumbest plot elements **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 2, 2017, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326 "2017-07-02T02:26:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/41 "2017-07-03T09:49:26Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > The Darmok episode of TNG. It’s ridiculous to suggest a space-faring race could have ever got to that stage and maintain a spacefaring society only using allusions to stories to communicate. But if you accept that big chunk of change upfront the plot around it is excellent. Even if you do accept that chunk of change, you still have to get past the fact that NOBODY in the Federation could figure out they were speaking in metaphors. Seriously? That took me all of five seconds to figure out. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/42 "2017-07-03T10:17:44Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > In **Aliens** , the whole notion that the supposedly fusion-powered atmospheric processor is going to blow up in a forty-megaton blast that can’t be prevented, but won’t happen for a few hours or so. Yes, I understand that for plot purposes they need a ‘ticking time bomb’ scenario, but as far as I can tell about such things, the only plausible failure mode for a fusion reactor would be…the fusion reaction stops. For fusion plants based on real-life designs, yes; but it _is_ possible to come up with designs that explode. Real life designs have only a very small amount of fuel being fused at a time; they can’t explode because there just isn’t enough material there to make a meaningful blast. But a fictional design that’s more like a “star in a bottle”\* could \*well explode; a large mass of extremely hot and dense matter is by nature prone to exploding if given the chance after all, fusion or not. And a fusion power plant that produces enough energy to explode with 40 megatons of force is not only of very different design than a real world one, but has a far higher power output. If it’s putting out that much power even if it didn’t explode I expect an uncontrolled shutdown to involve something more dramatic than just shutting off; all that energy has to go _somewhere._ > [@Unpronounceable](#): > > They show up in one of the books too. Where they find and test-fire a weapon labeled “incredibly stupid weapon: DO NOT USE.” They blow up the mountain they were aiming at, then the beam circles the planet and kills them all. Actually no, that was a different book-only race. And to be fair they couldn’t read the label. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/43 "2017-07-03T10:42:31Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Granted the original BSG took place either in the early 1950s or an indeterminate number of centuries in the future depending on if \*\*Galactica: 1980 \*\* is counted. Where did you get “the early 1950s”? IIRC, one episode – not of **Galactica: 1980** , but of the original series – had a broadcast coming in of Neil Armstrong announcing that _The Eagle Has Landed,_ which I figure marks it as the late 1960s (or later, if we figure they’re light-years away from Earth; but not sooner). ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/44 "2017-07-03T11:16:47Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I’m gonna get roasted for this, but the entire premise of _Breaking Bad_ is simply ridiculous. > > Lots of real dump plot points. > > Flame away! Are we supposed to guess which plot points? I’d love to flame but I need some kindling. The only one that bothered me in a “jumping the shark” kind of way was: The orchestrated and choreographed jail murders. There were other fantastical elements I could let slide, but that was just ridiculous. On a lesser show I would have given up at that point. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/45 "2017-07-03T11:24:07Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > _Snowpiercer_ is a terrific film, but the central premise of a train endlessly circling the earth is completely nuts. To me, it needs the elements of “post apocalyptic, low on resources” to get to “completely nuts.” I could buy that central premise as the crown jewel of a rich society, to be used for the enjoyment of the very richest. Edited to add: Because trains are cool!🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/46 "2017-07-03T11:41:20Z")
Quantum of Solace To me, Bond movies are about saving the world from evil geniuses in remote mountain lairs that are going to blow up the planet from space with lasers. Quantum of Solace was basically Bond intervening in someone trying raise the price of water. Yawn… ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/47 "2017-07-03T11:54:07Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The movie **Gattaca** , in almost its entirety. I’m glad to see a film trying to discuss such a serious sci-fi topic and it’s very well directed, but as many have noted it’s reasonable to think that the main character is pretty much a bad guy and the message of the story is all backwards. I would agree with that characterization. It’s a movie about a bad person just as much as Memento is, but it’s not clear that the director realized that point which seems like a fair reason to call it a stupid plot. Still, I think it’s a great film. [hmmmmm…](https://youtu.be/5gX0_cwbuA8). Seems kinda cray, having an ON switch on the _inside_ of your living-room incinerator… ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/48 "2017-07-03T12:27:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > For fusion plants based on real-life designs, yes; but it _is_ possible to come up with designs that explode. > > Real life designs have only a very small amount of fuel being fused at a time; they can’t explode because there just isn’t enough material there to make a meaningful blast. But a fictional design that’s more like a “star in a bottle”\* could \*well explode; a large mass of extremely hot and dense matter is by nature prone to exploding if given the chance after all, fusion or not. > > And a fusion power plant that produces enough energy to explode with 40 megatons of force is not only of very different design than a real world one, but has a far higher power output. If it’s putting out that much power even if it didn’t explode I expect an uncontrolled shutdown to involve something more dramatic than just shutting off; all that energy has to go _somewhere._ Er, well, yes, quite: fictional design is fictional. Can’t argue with that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/49 "2017-07-03T12:32:55Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > _The Count of Monte Cristo_ > > It’s been called a literary classic, and it’s enduring popularity is undeniable, but it has a silly, soap-opera plot. I couldn’t believe how lightweight it was when I finally got around to reading it. Still enjoyed it, though. Remember that it was originally printed in serial form, and it’s painfully obvious that Dumas was getting paid by the instalment. You also need to accept that God is pulling the strings in order for a lot of the plot machinations to make any sense at all. But it remains a favorite of mine. > [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Quantum of Solace > > To me, Bond movies are about saving the world from evil geniuses in remote mountain lairs that are going to blow up the planet from space with lasers. > > Quantum of Solace was basically Bond intervening in someone trying raise the price of water. Yawn… That, at least, made a certain amount of sense…unlike the ending set in Bolivia’s new Ford Pinto Hotel, in which a minor fenderbender in the parking lot results in the ENTIRE HOTEL EXPLODING. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/50 "2017-07-03T12:53:05Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That, at least, made a certain amount of sense…unlike the ending set in Bolivia’s new Ford Pinto Hotel, in which a minor fenderbender in the parking lot results in the ENTIRE HOTEL EXPLODING. Eh, well, that was another Weyland-Yutani design. They always were a bit twitchy. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/51 "2017-07-03T13:23:10Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Quantum of Solace > > To me, Bond movies are about saving the world from evil geniuses in remote mountain lairs that are going to blow up the planet from space with lasers. > > Quantum of Solace was basically Bond intervening in someone trying raise the price of water. Yawn… I actually prefer, as a change of pace, that not _every_ Bond movie has to have him saving the world. But I agree that water prices in Bolivia are not quite the kind of issues 007 ought to be dealing with. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/52 "2017-07-03T13:56:20Z")
> [@Anise](#): > > I LOVED Darmok!! There are certain aspects that probably work better if you don’t think about them too much… but I think I always assumed that the actual language was much, much more complex than anything the TNG crew was hearing from them at the time. > [@Grrr](#): > > Even if you do accept that chunk of change, you still have to get past the fact that NOBODY in the Federation could figure out they were speaking in metaphors. > > Seriously? That took me all of five seconds to figure out. > [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > The Darmok episode of TNG. It’s ridiculous to suggest a space-faring race could have ever got to that stage and maintain a spacefaring society only using allusions to stories to communicate. But if you accept that big chunk of change upfront the plot around it is excellent. There’s a much more fundamental flaw in Darmok which reflects a misunderstanding of how language works. That is, if you speak solely in metaphors, they stop being metaphors. The universal translator should have been able to translate the language according to what the intended meaning was, like it does with every other alien language, regardless of what the individual words might have originally literally meant historically. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/53 "2017-07-03T14:09:11Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > There’s a much more fundamental flaw in Darmok which reflects a misunderstanding of how language works. That is, if you speak solely in metaphors, they stop being metaphors. > > The universal translator should have been able to translate the language according to what the intended meaning was, like it does with every other alien language, regardless of what the individual words might have originally literally meant historically. To quote me, from [another thread,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=701613) because I still don’t know: > [@The Tamarian language makes no sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-tamarian-language-makes-no-sense/668240/23): > > I’m curious: imagine the universal translator is up and running when an enemy warship points its guns at the Enterprise; the alien commander announces that he’ll open fire unless our heroes teleport over a bunch of women along with the priceless artifacts being ferried around. _“Yes, sir,”_ says Picard, as Data instead puts a bomb in the container on the transporter pad; _“I’ll send the Trojan Horse this very minute. I’m ever so glad we can settle this peacefully; trusting us is your Achilles’ heel.”_ > > What does the alien hear? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/54 "2017-07-03T14:09:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I actually prefer, as a change of pace, that not _every_ Bond movie has to have him saving the world. But I agree that water prices in Bolivia are not quite the kind of issues 007 ought to be dealing with. ISTR it wasn’t really the reason he was on the case in the first place. Mostly it was “this evil organisation killed my girlfriend (and, later, the token punny-named, badly-acted totty) and they all must die”, concentrated into him foiling their Bolivia operation. ---
**Author:** ![moojja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@moojja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moojja)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/55 "2017-07-03T16:26:16Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Even if you do accept that chunk of change, you still have to get past the fact that NOBODY in the Federation could figure out they were speaking in metaphors. > > Seriously? That took me all of five seconds to figure out. No, the Federation did know they were speaking in metaphors, they just didn’t know what the metaphors meant. It was either Dr. Crush or Troi who explained the whole problem to Riker in the conference room, using Romeo and Juliet to explain the issue. Unless you know Shakespeare, you have no idea Juliet on the balcony is referring to a romance. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/56 "2017-07-03T16:36:20Z")
> [@moojja](#): > > No, the Federation did know they were speaking in metaphors, they just didn’t know what the metaphors meant. It was either Dr. Crush or Troi who explained the whole problem to Riker in the conference room, using Romeo and Juliet to explain the issue. Unless you know Shakespeare, you have no idea Juliet on the balcony is referring to a romance. Yeah and that doesn’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/57 "2017-07-03T17:01:38Z")
It’s ST:TNG. It’s not supposed to make sense. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/58 "2017-07-03T17:33:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > For fusion plants based on real-life designs, yes; but it _is_ possible to come up with designs that explode. > > Real life designs have only a very small amount of fuel being fused at a time; they can’t explode because there just isn’t enough material there to make a meaningful blast. But a fictional design that’s more like a “star in a bottle”\* could \*well explode; a large mass of extremely hot and dense matter is by nature prone to exploding if given the chance after all, fusion or not. > > And a fusion power plant that produces enough energy to explode with 40 megatons of force is not only of very different design than a real world one, but has a far higher power output. If it’s putting out that much power even if it didn’t explode I expect an uncontrolled shutdown to involve something more dramatic than just shutting off; all that energy has to go _somewhere._ This was explained to me once before by a nuclear industry spokesperson. Test reactors have low energy, but an actual fusion power plant could put out a ton of energy. If the magnetic-bottle containment were to fail, the plasma would expand until it touched the physical containment structure (most likely concrete and steel) and then the plasma would “lose its energy” and there would not be a “nuclear” explosion. Of course energy does not cease to exist, it converts. What this advocate was deliberately glossing over was that the PLASMA would go inert, but there would be one hell of a “concrete” explosion. It just wouldn’t count as “nuclear” by a technicality. ---
**Author:** ![jkirkman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@jkirkman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkirkman)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/59 "2017-07-03T17:41:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yeah and that doesn’t make sense. Well, that is because there _IS_ no balcony in _Romeo and Juliet_ . 🙂 One of those things that was added later on. The balcony scene turns up in Otway’s _The History and Fall of Caius Marius_, in 1679, which also included the line “O Marius, Marius! wherefore art thou Marius?” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326/60 "2017-07-03T17:46:41Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I agree with you about “Conscience of the King.” Surely they would have fingerprints, voiceprints, even DNA of Gov. Kodos. > > The letters of transit in _Casablanca_ are also nonsense. Even if they had some legal weight, they would never stop the Nazis from covertly picking up Victor Lazlo. _Covertly_? They’d _overtly_ pick him up as soon as they recognized him, and shoot him. Whether or not they used some polite fiction like “shot while escaping” would depend on how nice they were feeling that day. But Casablanca is still an awesome film! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/best-works-with-the-dumbest-plot-elements/790326.md?page=4)