Thanks for the very forthright discussion. I imagine Texans might “display” their loyalty more when they are AWAY from home than when at home… IME, it is pretty rare for folk to outwardly display their loyalty to their home state as much as Texans do. I dunno - maybe a college cap or t-shirt, but not so much of the “I consider myself a Texan first, and an American second” attitude. Even if only by a minority, it is a bit of a turn-off (to me, at least.)
The church it is a pretty big turn off to this nontheist. When I lived in Valparaiso, IN, which church you attended was a big deal, and nonattendance definitely restricted your social circle. Of course, growing up in Chicago in the 60s, EVERYONE was catholic, and parishes was one way of defining neighborhoods. My personal preference would be to live somewhere that a single religion were not dominant.
Stay away from Colorado It’s terrible. Ashes and dust and thirst there is, and pits pits pits, and orcses, thousands of orcses, and always the great eye watching, watching! Washington is similar except it is positively riddled with active volcanoes. New Mexico is pretty sweet though.
No offense but that makes you sound like an obnoxious NY’er with a chip on their shoulder.
However I don’t think Southerners demand an absolute minimum of newcomers, I think they demand they slow down and lower their expectations. You can have small towns and woods and fields and a slow way of life, or you can have crowds and services and lots of activities, it’s hard to have both.
I would think getting out of your bubble would be the best thing if you really think your way of thinking is superior and want to make the world a better place.
You’re not going to make a single difference in the world at a local level where everyone agrees with you. And a state will flip much faster with a steady stream of transplants.
No, but if you’re not actually interested in a dissenting opinion, then feel free to ignore mine. I was just providing my honest thoughts on the subject. No big deal. You can love your home town, and others might rationally think it’s not best for them or their children, and those two possibilities are not necessarily in conflict.
And so we can go around in a circle endlessly if you like. Because it’s a culture divide and people on different sides of it just don’t see it the same way. It makes neither of them wrong. It just means I have no interest in dealing with that gap, so no interest in living in the South, end of story.
I don’t find it’s the same in slower less crowded places in the North. Even after 150+ yrs since the Civil War, to some degree North is North, South is South. I didn’t feel as out of place for example in rural Minnesota where my daughter used to live. That’s the North, where I’m from, though a slightly different variation.
Maybe you carry yourself like a Texan, Gray Ghost. They hate that.
But seriously, this is gospel. On the strange day I find myself in The South, I am always looking over my shoulder, feeling like I am just being tolerated and that there are dozens of people ready to guide me northward the second I look like I find something disagreeable. I’ve never felt that way in The North. Although I can never seem to get out of Iowa fast enough.
Oregon and Washington are naturally beautiful states to live in. Mild climate, few serious storms, wet season/dry season but not 4 defined seasons, awesome ocean beaches, forests, mountains, high desert, they have it all within a few hours drive.
And they have reliably blue politics. But if it is important to you that you are surrounded by like-minded people that agree with a liberal point of view, then you are going to need to stay in the urban areas along the I-5 corridor, because the rest of these states are red as hell. To get out and enjoy all this natural wonder means mingling with people who are not in agreement with your circle of friends. Much of the country is like that.
Strange. I usually find the south friendly and more forgiving. Although Minnesota is also friendly and forgiving. Iowa has always struck me as weirdly insular for some reason. I have never met an Iowan that was blatantly rude, but I think they tend to be laconic at least to tourists and so come across as neither friendly nor unfriendly-just hard to read and so uncomfortable.
New York City always makes me feel like I’m in peoples’ ways and that I am a bother to be tolerated. If you spend ten seconds deciding whether you want sausage or pepperoni pizza, they act like you need to be taken out and shot. They have an expectation that everyone knows the hidden rules and if you don’t, you’re mentally incompetent.
Upstate New York has a little brother complex. If you talk to people from the Finger Lakes or Rochester, they have a tendency to think that everything there is the greatest thing ever invented and by extension everything not from there is inferior.
Boston I find to be friendlier, but people are very rules driven. If a restaurant closes at 4, then you’re kicked out at 4. They’re more forgiving though and more likely to engage you in casual conversation.
Chicago I find to be incredibly racist, even moreso than the south and it’s really in your face kind of stuff. I don’t have a clue as to why, but they have no compunctions saying that they avoid certain parts of town or ascribing behaviors to a racial group. I don’t even see that in the south where racism is more systemic than blatant.
Southern cities in contrast are more forgiving of error and generally have a more laid back air to them. If you’re in NoLa, everyone seems ready to party at the drop of a hat and you’re invited. Very open people.
Savannah and Charleston are nearly tropical in their outlooks. Very laid back and welcoming. They are slower paced and pleasant places.
I like lots of the western cities too, but I might be the only person in the world that hates Seattle. I think largely because Seattle is right next door to Vancouver and Victoria which are amazing cities, so Seattle kind of sucks in comparison. I like Denver’s vibe, very young and new feeling. Like a place that is just about ready to come into its own, but you’re there before it does. Los Angeles feels like it’s a place that doesn’t really exist. It feels like its entire culture is what a group of people have decided that its culture should be rather than something that actually developed. It’s very strange and I dislike it. I love San Diego on the other hand, I also think its culture has some fake elements and it has way more transients than I’d like, but I think that the blend of Mexican and more stereotypical ‘American’ culture is done just right. If you forced me to live in California, I think San Diego would be my spot.
Texas cities pretty much suck though. I can’t think of any that I particularly love. San Antonio has some pretty architecture I guess. Austin is a city that feels completely comprised of transplants that really, really want to be cool, but just aren’t. It’s OK. Dallas/FW thinks that it’s something that it isn’t. It mixes that upstate New York arrogance with downstate New York rudeness, but will tell you that it isn’t. It and Houston are probably the worst cities south of the Mason-Dixon line (though I have no love for Atlanta either.)
Anyway, I think I’ve really gone off the rails, but it seems in the spirit of the thread.
If you made me to choose a place to live in the US other than my own, I think that Savannah and the Georgia coast would probably be the top of my list of places to move. After that, probably the upper midwest - Minnesota or Wisconsin. I would follow that up with San Diego.
If you allowed me to pick the places that I absolutely would not want to live, probably New York City would top the list, close behind would be the entire state of Texas and I think Phoenix would be number three (but Flagstaff is nice), though Los Angeles would be in close contention.
You said in response to my statement that politics are largely about social posturing
The implication being that you would choose your state based on laws that don’t violate your personal views and that it is more than social posturing. When I rebutted that all states have laws that violate my personal views and I would wager yours as well and that you are not really choosing based upon laws that violate your personal views, but rather one or two social signifying laws in an effort to appear to be a certain type of person. Rather than challenge my rebuttal, you said, “What’s wrong with that?” I was merely reiterating the crux of my argument that you’re really seeking to make social statements with your politics.
I will clarify my position that I believe you (and not just you, but people as a whole) are choosing to object or support a very small subset of laws based on social utility and the laws you are picking are ways to demonstrate your social class rather than really caring about the impact of a complete body of laws. The issue is not that Kansas teaches intelligent design and this somehow makes the schools inferior, after all, Kansas schools rank fairly highly in test scores and US rankings, higher than either New York or California, so its policies do not seem to be impacting the quality of education. Rather, the objection is that Kansas by doing this is signaling that it is a ‘class’ (where we mean group, not economic class) of people that is perhaps more religious and you object to that class of people. Your objection is to a type of person and not a particular law.
I currently live in Fort Lauderdale, FL. Seven years now. First place I ever lived in the US where English is a second language. If you live in south Florida you better become conversant in Spanish.
I lived on Sullivan’s Island, just outside of Charleston, SC, for six years. Parts of South Carolina still refer to the Civil War as ‘the recent unpleasantness’. My wife was a doc there. We met all sorts of ‘upper crust’ Charlestonians that were so kind and pleasant to your face but would stick a knife between your shoulder blades if they found it somehow advantageous. We used to visit Savannah, GA A LOT to get away from them. Now THERE’S a city! Fun, fun, fun.
Spent a lot of time in LA: Too hot, too much traffic, too much everything.
Portland, OR is fun but wet 8 months out of the year. Lots to do if you like hiking…and now a great foodie destination.
But I gotta say, if I could live on the north shore of Oahu…Sunset Beach…heaven on Earth.
Chicago is a city where their are alot of good jobs especially for people working their way up in a corporation. Most major corporations, if their corporate headquarters are not there, at least have a major branch in Chicago.
Which is also why most people I know have connections in Chicago such as a relative living there or they used to live there.
Even better for me would be Maui or Kaui. Those are areas with small town feel yet you are living in a tropical island.
A negative though from the people we talked to when we visited is because its expensive to travel even to the other islands people can sometimes feel trapped.
Because it’s a culture divide and people on different sides of it just don’t see it the same way. It makes neither of them wrong. It just means I have no interest in dealing with that gap, so no interest in living in the South, end of story.