# Better BATMAN movie: BATMAN RETURNS or THE DARK KNIGHT? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 8, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593 "2015-07-08T16:55:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/21 "2015-07-08T19:13:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Adam West never did a Batman serial. He was in the Batman TV show that came out in 1966, and the feature film it inspired. See how lazy I am? I still haven’t gone to look it up. Seriously, thank you for the info. 🙂 I swear, I need to have you on call or something, as my comic book/movie/TV show guru. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/22 "2015-07-08T19:15:29Z")
I didn’t know that the Nolan movies weren’t popular with comic fans. I knew they had taken some liberties, but from my limited reading of a few Batman comics in the 80s and 90s the Nolan movies weren’t any less ‘true’ to the comic than the Burton movies. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/23 "2015-07-08T19:19:07Z")
Honestly, the best Batman movie I’ve ever seen was [Batman: Dead End](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j7d3lIAkes). But since it wasn’t on the list, I picked the 1940s serials, mainly for the style. I enjoyed the Adam West movie, but it wasn’t great. Haven’t seen _Mask of the Phantasm_. As for Keaton, Kilmer, Clooney, and Bale… meh. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/24 "2015-07-08T19:22:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I didn’t know that the Nolan movies weren’t popular with comic fans. I knew they had taken some liberties, but from my limited reading of a few Batman comics in the 80s and 90s the Nolan movies weren’t any less ‘true’ to the comic than the Burton movies. Fair enough. For a lot of us “old geezers,” the ‘true’ Batman hasn’t even been seen in the comics since the mid-'80s. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/25 "2015-07-08T19:24:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I didn’t know that the Nolan movies weren’t popular with comic fans. I knew they had taken some liberties, but from my limited reading of a few Batman comics in the 80s and 90s the Nolan movies weren’t any less ‘true’ to the comic than the Burton movies. Yah honestly I thought all of the comic book fans LOVED the Nolan movies because they were truer to the comic books than previous iterations. I mean, that’s all I heard about when I complained about them: “Yeah, but these are true to the comics! So they’re realer!” Or whatever. Doesn’t matter. They sucked donkey butt. Skald is correct: shine too much light on Batman, make him too realistic, and you realize what a turd the whole thing is. You need to keep him in the realm of fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/26 "2015-07-08T19:54:41Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Yah honestly I thought all of the comic book fans LOVED the Nolan movies because they were truer to the comic books than previous iterations. I mean, that’s all I heard about when I complained about them: “Yeah, but these are true to the comics! So they’re realer!” Or whatever. I think they’re truer to the “Dark Knight Returns” graphic novel, but that was one of the more influential drivers of the “make everything gritty, realistic, and depressing” that has afflicted comics and SF for the past 25+ years (Battlestar Galactica, I’m looking at you). Also, “The Killing Joke”. Those of us who are, um, somewhat older still remember when Batman wasn’t a deranged psycho who’s just slightly less terrifying than his opponents. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/27 "2015-07-08T19:58:51Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > I think they’re truer to the “Dark Knight Returns” graphic novel, but that was one of the more influential drivers of the “make everything gritty, realistic, and depressing” that has afflicted comics and SF for the past 25+ years (Battlestar Galactica, I’m looking at you). Also, “The Killing Joke”. > > Those of us who are, um, somewhat older still remember when Batman wasn’t a deranged psycho who’s just slightly less terrifying than his opponents. Is that why BSG was so rapey? I could not watch that show. That was a terrible, awful, no good show. ETA: It’s “mature”. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/28 "2015-07-08T20:23:33Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Is that why BSG was so rapey? I could not watch that show. That was a terrible, awful, no good show. I think so. It’s the same theory – let’s take something campy and laughable and re-envision it as dark and gritty as how it would be if actual flawed human beings were involved. No…more flawed than that. More flawed! Much more flawed! Oh, the heck with it, let’s make them all unlikeable sociopaths. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/29 "2015-07-08T20:25:16Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > I think so. It’s the same theory – let’s take something campy and laughable and re-envision it as dark and gritty as how it would be if actual flawed human beings were involved. No…more flawed than that. More flawed! Much more flawed! Oh, the heck with it, let’s make them all unlikeable sociopaths. In fairness, “campy and laughable” is maybe not the best approach to take with a story about the survivors of a planetary-scale genocide. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/30 "2015-07-08T20:31:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In fairness, “campy and laughable” is maybe not the best approach to take with a story about the survivors of a planetary-scale genocide. Ah, possibly, but you shouldn’t end up rooting for the Cylons to hurry up and finish the job. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/31 "2015-07-08T20:36:44Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Ah, possibly, but you shouldn’t end up rooting for the Cylons to hurry up and finish the job. You should if you know what’s good for you, meatbag! ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/32 "2015-07-08T20:41:21Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Ah, possibly, but you shouldn’t end up rooting for the Cylons to hurry up and finish the job. Agreed! So…nothing in between huh? I guess I’ll have to wait for the next iteration and then maybe then it will be good. When you end up hating every single character except maybe the “dumb” robot Cylons… ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/33 "2015-07-08T21:28:18Z")
You didn’t reference Eartha Kitt so I’m refusing to vote! My favorite Batman is that Clark guy that was on youtube last century. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/34 "2015-07-08T21:36:18Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > You didn’t reference Eartha Kitt so I’m refusing to vote! > > My favorite Batman is that Clark guy that was on youtube last century. I and I alone hated Kitt’s Catwoman. Catwoman. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/35 "2015-07-09T00:23:20Z")
I love me some Eartha, and I love her as Catwoman, but I love Julie Newmar’s even more. She and Adam West didn’t have chemistry, they had AP Chemistry. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/36 "2015-07-09T00:55:17Z")
Shoot, wasn’t paying attention and thought I could only vote for one. Add another vote for RETURNS (the best Keaton Batman and the best female part in the entire series, hands down). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/37 "2015-07-09T01:36:45Z")
The two Burton movies were fun enough, but they just weren’t very good. The first two Nolan movies weren’t as fun, but were great, especially Ledger’s Joker. The third Nolan movie was passable in all respects, but only passable. The Adam West show was fun, and had the best Catwomen of any screen adaptation so far. The Schumacher movies had no redeeming virtue whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/38 "2015-07-09T03:07:59Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I love me some Eartha, and I love her as Catwoman, but I love Julie Newmar’s even more. > > She and Adam West didn’t have chemistry, they had AP Chemistry. The perfect Catwoman would be Julie’s walk and body, but Eartha’s voice. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/39 "2015-07-09T12:41:51Z")
See, I’d really _like_ for _Batman Returns_ to be my favorite …it’s got a character who is the son of a character played by Christopher Walken and therefore the actor playing the son does so while doing a Christopher Walken impression! Also, Paul Reubens in a non-Pee-wee role- and he’s reunited with Simone! As Pee-wee said to Simone watching the sunrise from within a the mouth of a Dinosaur, “Everyone I know has a big ‘but’. C’mon, Simone, tell me about your big ‘but’.” My big “but”: But… I just really really hate the portrayal of The Penguin- and I don’t blame Danny DeVito for it. But I love everything else about the movie! Keaton’s awesome, Michelle Pfeiffer is awesome- and whether or not she was _the_ best Catwoman, she certainly had the best Catwoman costume! But because I dislike The Penguin so much, Burton’s first movie edges out _Returns_ in competition for my favorite Batman movie. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/40 "2015-07-09T12:50:06Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I and I alone hated Kitt’s Catwoman. Catwoman. Nope, I have negative love for her, too. And _Returns_ for me. But it’s only over the first Burton _Batman_ because of an absolutely wonderful lack of Jack the Hack (also, it has Walken. Everything’s better with Walken) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593.md?page=3)