# Better BATMAN movie: BATMAN RETURNS or THE DARK KNIGHT? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 8, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593 "2015-07-08T16:55:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/41 "2015-07-09T15:53:07Z")
Ms Kitt was the only Catwoman that could actually purr (yowza šŸ™‚ ) I have to concede Julie was the first but Eartha was the greatest. Her mannerisms and carriage was outstanding. and Halle Berry is (the ultimate catwoā€¦ hahahahahhahaha, I couldnā€™t even type that) well, sheā€™s hot and she dressed as a cat anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/42 "2015-07-09T22:09:36Z")
It takes a truly remarkable talent to put Halle Berry in a torn leather catsuit, and yet to somehow make her un-sexy in the process. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/43 "2015-07-09T22:27:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It takes a truly remarkable talent to put Halle Berry in a torn leather catsuit, and yet to somehow make her un-sexy in the process. you have to watch it muted and fast forward through any part where sheā€™s not walking. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/44 "2015-07-09T22:34:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It takes a truly remarkable talent to put Halle Berry in a torn leather catsuit, and yet to somehow make her un-sexy in the process. No, it doesnā€™t. Sheā€™s not especially hot. Her face is ā€¦ vapid, and her boobs are too big. Now if youā€™ll excuse me, I must don my Iron Man armor ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/45 "2015-07-09T23:45:43Z")
It was as if Sheldon Cooper has constructed that poll. Christ Almighty. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/46 "2015-07-09T23:54:22Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > It was as if Sheldon Cooper has constructed that poll. Christ Almighty. While I happily admit to being a petty little man, I am nothing like that ā€¦ entity. Iā€™m extremely silly online; Sheldonā€™s a misanthropic creep who would never realize how hot 90s Michelle Pfeiffer was. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/47 "2015-07-10T03:15:35Z")
Catwoman. Starman. The Karate Kid. Three movies that had the same names as DC Comics characters, and acknowledged that in the credits, but had nothing in common with those characters beyond the title. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/48 "2015-07-10T11:56:39Z")
jayrey: > [@](#): > > And thatā€™s saying something, since Iā€™ve never liked Keaton in anything, before or since. Have you never seen **Johnny Dangerously**? You really should see it onceā€¦_once_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/49 "2015-07-10T12:27:54Z")
Didja know his last name is an adverb? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/50 "2015-07-10T13:19:31Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > My big ā€œbutā€: > Butā€¦ I just really really hate the portrayal of The Penguin- and I donā€™t blame Danny DeVito for it. But I love everything else about the movie! Keatonā€™s awesome, Michelle Pfeiffer is awesome- and whether or not she was _the_ best Catwoman, she certainly had the best Catwoman costume! Yesbutpenguins! No I didnā€™t even mind the portrayal of the Penguin. And the flat out lust and desire between Keaton and Pfeiffer was very real, as well as their sadness. They put two excellent actors together and while the movie was more than a bit Burton-esque, the actors put their all into it. And I love Pfeiffer, to the point where I almost canā€™t stand seeing anyone else in the Catsuit. Especially not the Hathaway girl. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/51 "2015-07-10T13:53:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Didja know his last name is an adverb? Keaton is an adverb? šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/52 "2015-07-10T14:38:50Z")
Put me down for _Returns,_ the first vote for _Forever_ (the soundtrack in particular was _awesome),_ as well as for _Begins_ and _The Dark Knight._ ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/53 "2015-07-10T22:20:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, you had to see them in their time, which was when ā€œcampā€ was in and ā€œdark and grittyā€ was out. I prefer camp to dark and gritty as I am so fucking tired of dark and gritty. Iā€™m with you, there. Gritty has been done to death in pop culture. Skald has the right of it: > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Burtonā€™s BATMEN are better than Nolanā€™s because theyā€™re less realistic, and as has been observed before, Batman as a concept stops working if you get too realistic. Also, in spite of this point about the RETURNS Bruce (with which I agree) ā€“ > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > That said, RETURNS is the better of the Burton movies. It remembers something that the first one forgot: Bruce Wayne is _broken_. Heā€™s not insane exactly; heā€™s just never going to be happy, even though heā€™s earned happiness, because joy just isnā€™t in him. As Iā€™ve written before, Bruce is well and truly sick of being Batman by the end of the movie ā€“ hell, by the Christmas party scene. He just doesnā€™t know how to do anything else. ā€“ in spite of that perfectly valid point about Bruce, both Burton movies manage to beā€¦fun. Instead of forcing us to suffer along with miserable mopey Bale-Batman, we get to actually _enjoy_ snarky, nihilistic Keaton-Batman. We might feel sorry for him, but we enjoy him. And, of course, the manic perverted energy of the villains in the Burton movies make them a pleasure to watch. Walken and Pfeiffer delight me without reservation, and even DeVito has his moments. (Nicholson, too.) So, yes: another vote for _Returns_. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/54 "2015-07-10T22:27:35Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Iā€™m with you, there. Gritty has been done to death in pop culture. > > Skald has the right of it: > > Also, in spite of this point about the RETURNS Bruce (with which I agree) ā€“ > > ā€“ in spite of that perfectly valid point about Bruce, both Burton movies manage to beā€¦fun. Instead of forcing us to suffer along with miserable mopey Bale-Batman, we get to actually _enjoy_ snarky, nihilistic Keaton-Batman. We might feel sorry for him, but we enjoy him. > > And, of course, the manic perverted energy of the villains in the Burton movies make them a pleasure to watch. Walken and Pfeiffer delight me without reservation, and even DeVito has his moments. (Nicholson, too.) > > So, yes: another vote for _Returns_. Obviously I agree with most of the above, with the qualification that Catwoman isnā€™t exactly a villain. Hasnā€™t been for a long time, even in the comics. Sheā€™s a criminal, sure, but thereā€™s too much she wonā€™t do to class her in with the Joker or even the Riddler. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593/55 "2015-07-10T22:55:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Obviously I agree with most of the above, with the qualification that Catwoman isnā€™t exactly a villain. Hasnā€™t been for a long time, even in the comics. Sheā€™s a criminal, sure, but thereā€™s too much she wonā€™t do to class her in with the Joker or even the Riddler. Fair point. I will say that in Burtonā€™s handling of the character, the audience was kept quite off-balance as to how much mayhem she _might_ have gotten up to. In the event, as you mention, she didnā€™t do anything that might put her in a class with the Joker or the Riddler. But part of the brilliance of Burtonā€™s storytelling is that though we had sympathy for the character (given the origin-story we were shown), she was so deranged/enraged/unpredictable that ā€œvillainā€ seemed a real possibility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-batman-movie-batman-returns-or-the-dark-knight/724593.md?page=2)