# Better Call Saul - Finale **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625 "2016-04-19T04:23:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/181 "2016-04-25T18:18:42Z")
> [@btcg](#): > > One more time: see post #125 In the very post you responded to with this I clearly stated that the revelation of the tape would make HHM look terrible to Mesa Verde because of this. You need not refer to your own post over and over; you’ve made your point. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/182 "2016-04-25T18:32:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In the very post you responded to with this I clearly stated that the revelation of the tape would make HHM look terrible to Mesa Verde because of this. I think you should refer to post 125 here, it’s really relevant to your points. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/183 "2016-04-25T22:41:26Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > The difference (to Mike, in my view) is that the cartel driver willingly got involved with these guys, and probably had a few skeletons in his own closet. In any event, I didn’t read this as Mike getting revenge for the good samaritan, just Mike getting rid of someone who’s a threat to him (and his granddaughter). Nope. This is ENTIRELY because Mike feels guilty over the good Samaritan. He was ready and willing to walk away and let this all be, until Nacho told him the story about the dead Samaritan. Nacho tells him “He’s already forgotten about you,” but Mike can’t let that death stay un-avenged. Mike likes order in his crime and he has a code–which is also why it will make sense for him to work fro Fring and why he always hated Walt. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/184 "2016-04-26T00:00:27Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Nope. This is ENTIRELY because Mike feels guilty over the good Samaritan. > He was ready and willing to walk away and let this all be, until Nacho told him the story about the dead Samaritan. Nacho tells him “He’s already forgotten about you,” but Mike can’t let that death stay un-avenged. Mike likes order in his crime and he has a code–which is also why it will make sense for him to work fro Fring and why he always hated Walt. I don’t think there’s any evidence for that level of certainty. I think that it’s at least partially the case that Mike wants Tio and all his gang in jail. He thought that what he set up would surely cause the police to come investigate, they would then have evidence they never before had had which led them to make all sorts of arrests, etc. So even without the good samaritan, he might have tried another way of getting at Tio, because he might not feel personally safe until Tio is in jail or dead, and he would have preferred in jail, but he’ll go with dead. And note that in all of these cases, there’s no reason for Tio’s people to think that the person behind these very well planned operations is one semi-disgruntled old guy who they already paid off. Or you might be right. Or it might be some of each. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/185 "2016-04-26T01:20:59Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Nope. This is ENTIRELY because Mike feels guilty over the good Samaritan. Not a chance. That’s not what Mike’s about. Either way, I’m not loving this retconning of Mike’s character. He was my favorite in BB for his no-nonsense attitude and dispassionate, amoral sense of duty. Proactively targeting the entire Salamanca crew without a specific threat isn’t really appropriate for his character. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/186 "2016-04-26T02:13:44Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Not a chance. That’s not what Mike’s about. > > Either way, I’m not loving this retconning of Mike’s character. He was my favorite in BB for his no-nonsense attitude and dispassionate, amoral sense of duty. Proactively targeting the entire Salamanca crew without a specific threat isn’t really appropriate for his character. It’s not a retcon, they’re not changing anything about BB, and it was pretty clear in BB that he wasn’t always exactly like that (if nothing else, he’d have no example for the half measures speech). What they’re doing is showing the development of Mike’s character as he forms the code that he holds to in breaking bad. He hasn’t really embraced being a cold, dispassionate criminal yet, he still has a sense of righteousness and a bunch of dangerous soft spots. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/187 "2016-04-26T05:00:32Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Proactively targeting the entire Salamanca crew without a specific threat isn’t really appropriate for his character. I see it as reactively deciding they all must die once the two goons showed up at the pool where his granddaughter was. Hell, I wouldn’t be completely shocked if that scene caused Mike to go full Keyser Soze on their asses (kill them, their families, people who owed them money…), but we know he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/188 "2016-04-26T18:09:51Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Not a chance. That’s not what Mike’s about. > > Either way, I’m not loving this retconning of Mike’s character. He was my favorite in BB for his no-nonsense attitude and dispassionate, amoral sense of duty. Proactively targeting the entire Salamanca crew without a specific threat isn’t really appropriate for his character. But he wasn’t targeting the whole crew. Doesn’t he even say to Jim Beaver’s arms dealer that he’s firing ONE shot. He’s balancing the books. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/189 "2016-04-26T18:27:41Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > But he wasn’t targeting the whole crew. Doesn’t he even say to Jim Beaver’s arms dealer that he’s firing ONE shot. He’s balancing the books. Wasn’t it one box? I don’t know how much ammo is typically in a box of sniper rifle ammunition, but I don’t think he ever said he’d only need one _shot._ ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/190 "2016-04-26T18:49:38Z")
Right. He said “just one” (I think) but he meant just one box. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/191 "2016-04-26T18:51:29Z")
**Push you down** ’s got it right. Mike sees Hector as a dangerous dog who doesn’t play by the rules. It’s one thing to bribe Mike to minimize Tuco’s jail time. It’s different to kill not just the assassin/transporter, but also the innocent passerby who rescued said transporter. There is, in Mike’s code, no reason to kill the bystander. In fact it’s a core part of Mike’s code throughout Breaking Bad – and why he did not like working with Walter White. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/192 "2016-04-26T19:32:13Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > **Push you down** ’s got it right. Mike sees Hector as a dangerous dog who doesn’t play by the rules. > It’s one thing to bribe Mike to minimize Tuco’s jail time. It’s different to kill not just the assassin/transporter, but also the innocent passerby who rescued said transporter. More pertinently, it makes Mike believe the threat to his granddaughter remains in effect. Throughout this series and five years of Breaking Bad, Mike’s only really consistent motivation was to protect Kaylee. The $50,000 deal appeared to remove the threat. Then they kill the Good Samaritan, and why? Because it was convenient to do so; Hector and crew could have figured out a way to not kill the guy, but it was easier to dig a hole. And if it’s convenient to do that, why not kill Mike? And to get to Mike, why not through Kaylee? Hector Salamanca is a threat to Kaylee, so Hector Salamanca must go. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/193 "2016-04-26T20:02:54Z")
I’m not disagreeing about Mike’s motives, but now I’m wondering; at what point does he decide that hector is no longer a direct threat to Kaylee? Why is he still alive (but severely limited) in BB? Maybe Mike is instrumental in him ending up in prison, but would Mike be satisfied that that eliminates the threat? Maybe this is how Mike ends up working for Gus. Gus is powerful enough to protect him and Kaylee. Part of the truce between Gus and the cartel likely involves the safety of both the cartel’s and Gus’ people. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/194 "2016-04-26T20:17:39Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Maybe this is how Mike ends up working for Gus. Gus is powerful enough to protect him and Kaylee. Part of the truce between Gus and the cartel likely involves the safety of both the cartel’s and Gus’ people. I am almost certain this will be the case. That’s why (presumably) Gus left the “don’t” note. Killing Hector would cause a shitstorm that Gus is being sent to avert. My WAG anyways. Eta: hey, when were those Gus proposing his deal to the cartel flashbacks in BB supposed to have happened? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/195 "2016-04-26T21:07:10Z")
Even in 2002 (or 2004- whenever this takes place), was there any way that Chuck could do anything of real value for a client involving their paperwork and filing without using a computer? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/196 "2016-04-26T21:07:37Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I am almost certain this will be the case. That’s why (presumably) Gus left the “don’t” note. Killing Hector would cause a shitstorm that Gus is being sent to avert. My WAG anyways. > Eta: hey, when were those Gus proposing his deal to the cartel flashbacks in BB supposed to have happened? A lot longer ago than Better Call Saul. It was like late 80s, early 90s IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/197 "2016-04-27T01:45:52Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Even in 2002 (or 2004- whenever this takes place), was there any way that Chuck could do anything of real value for a client involving their paperwork and filing without using a computer? Yes, electronic filing of a lot of documents is relatively recent, and I’m not aware of any courts or registrars that will reject paper documents even now. Googling it looks like New Mexico only allowed electronic filing of real estate documents in 2008, and I would imagine banking followed a similar path. Even now, he could take all of the information from their files and use his knowledge and paper books to be sure that it complied with everything needed for banking law. There will always be some paralegal or low-level associate who can actually type anything needed into a computer for Chuck, AFAIK usually senior partners don’t actually hand-write final documents themselves very often. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/198 "2016-04-27T05:54:01Z")
Plus he could use an old-timey typewriter in a pinch. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/199 "2016-04-27T06:59:13Z")
We’ve seen him use a typewriter before: [http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/better-call-saul-chuck.jpg](http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/better-call-saul-chuck.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/200 "2016-04-29T14:13:47Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I did like that the actor either had some firearms experience or got some training for that scene. I know enough about guns that his adjusting the gun and moving his finger on and off the trigger as he prepared to take the shot looked really convincing, and one thing that movies and TV usually get badly wrong is gun handling. I also liked that Mike had a pistol with him in addition to the rifle and didn’t go back to the car trying to use the rifle at close quarters. I think they did get something wrong in that scene though. One of the shots is from the front looking at Mike and he is seen to adjust the aim of the rifle to the left 3-4 inches to look at the house rather than the grave. Seems like the distance would require only a fraction of an inch of movement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625.md?page=11)