# Better Call Saul - Finale **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625 "2016-04-19T04:23:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/61 "2016-04-20T02:46:42Z")
> [@btcg](#): > > What fakes? Jimmy put the originals back. The ones filed with the commission. Come to think of it, that’s a big indicator. ---
**Author:** ![btcg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@btcg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/btcg)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/62 "2016-04-20T02:49:55Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > Except the fakes no longer exist. Jimmy went back into Chucks house and put the original documents back in the file. (Presumably destroying the doctored fakes thereafter) - 1 ---
**Author:** ![btcg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@btcg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/btcg)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/63 "2016-04-20T02:51:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > The ones filed with the commission. Come to think of it, that’s a big indicator. Chuck wrote those… a mistake working by lantern light… as Kim noted. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/64 "2016-04-20T03:14:04Z")
> [@btcg](#): > > Chuck wrote those… a mistake working by lantern light… as Kim noted. And somehow the originals have the correct address on them when the copies don’t? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/65 "2016-04-20T03:22:25Z")
There are no “doctored copies”: 1. Jimmy gets into Chuck’s house, grabs the documents, takes them to the printer, doctors them, and then puts the doctored documents into the files, keeping the originals. 2. Chuck takes the doctored documents, fills out the govt forms needed from the (incorrect) information in the docs. 3. Jimmy goes back, replaces the doctored documents with the originals, destroys the doctored documents. Therefore, there is nothing to perform forensic analysis on - all the surviving physical evidence points to a transcription error by Chuck. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/66 "2016-04-20T03:23:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > And somehow the originals have the correct address on them when the copies don’t? Again, what copies? There are no copies to find, because Jimmy presumably destroyed them. Chuck is the only person who ever saw the copies, and those copies are no longer available for examination. > [@scoots](#): > > She wouldn’t have any choice. It’s known that her and Jimmy are sleeping together. The police will ask her about Jimmy’s movements on the night in question. She either tells the truth or she lies. Not long after that, she’ll be in court facing the same questions. She won’t lie in court so she can’t lie to the police. Why would they ask Kim about Jimmy’s movements on that night? There’s no debate or doubt: Jimmy was at the copy place taking care of his brother. Nobody could or would dispute that. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/67 "2016-04-20T03:34:41Z")
> [@scoots](#): > > Nah. Have to disagree. There’s three witnesses - photocopier guy and Ernesto (who will both crack under cop questioning) and Kim (who won’t lie under oath in court) plus a confession. And despite Chuck’s tin foil fetish, he’s not officially crazy and still practices law as the senior partner in a respected law firm. > > Having said that - the fact that Jimmy is still a lawyer in Breaking Bad means that whatever happens he doesn’t get struck off. So either Chuck doesn’t pursue it, or he dies before he gets a chance or he loses the case (or something else happens). This (the second para). One of the things I’m looking forward to is a plausible explanation of how Saul Goodman manages to practice law in Albuquerque, even though he had previously practiced law _in the same city_, as Jimmy McGill, with TV commercials and everything. Doesn’t seem like he could have managed that had he gotten in much trouble with the Bar Association. But then. I’m no lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/68 "2016-04-20T04:16:21Z")
> [@scoots](#): > > She wouldn’t have any choice. It’s known that her and Jimmy are sleeping together. The police will ask her about Jimmy’s movements on the night in question. She either tells the truth or she lies. Not long after that, she’ll be in court facing the same questions. She won’t lie in court so she can’t lie to the police. I’m pretty sure the police are not going to be remotely interested in investigating this “case.” They didn’t really care too much about Yoyo Master’s stolen baseball cards. Besides, there’s a growing meth problem in Albuquerque to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![btcg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@btcg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/btcg)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/69 "2016-04-20T04:30:38Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > I’m pretty sure the police are not going to be remotely interested in investigating this “case.” They didn’t really care too much about Yoyo Master’s stolen baseball cards. Besides, there’s a growing meth problem in Albuquerque to worry about. - 1 they’ll say it’s a civil matter. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/70 "2016-04-20T04:41:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > There are no “doctored copies”: > > 1. Jimmy gets into Chuck’s house, grabs the documents, takes them to the printer, doctors them, and then puts the doctored documents into the files, keeping the originals. > > 2. Chuck takes the doctored documents, fills out the govt forms needed from the (incorrect) information in the docs. > > 3. Jimmy goes back, replaces the doctored documents with the originals, destroys the doctored documents. > > Therefore, there is nothing to perform forensic analysis on - all the surviving physical evidence points to a transcription error by Chuck. Let’s go over this again. The files contain documents which are filed with the commission (13 of them, to be exact). Not forms, but documents. You actually get to see at least one of them in the show, and it’s a letter. Jimmy doctors and replaces them. Chuck takes them and files them with the commission, along with whatever other forms are necessary. Jimmy replaces the doctored documents with the originals, and goes on his merry way. The commission now has copies of the doctored documents, and Chuck now has the (original) originals. Clear? ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/71 "2016-04-20T04:59:50Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Let’s go over this again. The files contain documents which are filed with the commission (13 of them, to be exact). Not forms, but documents. You actually get to see at least one of them in the show, and it’s a letter. Jimmy doctors and replaces them. Chuck takes them and files them with the commission, along with whatever other forms are necessary. Jimmy replaces the doctored documents with the originals, and goes on his merry way. The commission now has copies of the doctored documents, and Chuck now has the (original) originals. Jimmy doctored the originals that HHM received from the client. Chuck produced the paperwork and filed documents with the commission. Documents he redacted himself from doctored originals. Jimmy again replaces the doctored originals with original originals after the fact. Everybody thinks Chuck made a mistake but he was working from bad sources, which no longer exist. What you appear to be missing is that the documents Chuck filed are not the same ones Jimmy altered. ---
**Author:** ![btcg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@btcg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/btcg)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/72 "2016-04-20T05:03:32Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Let’s go over this again. The files contain documents which are filed with the commission (13 of them, to be exact). Not forms, but documents. You actually get to see at least one of them in the show, and it’s a letter. Jimmy doctors and replaces them. Chuck takes them and files them with the commission, along with whatever other forms are necessary. Jimmy replaces the doctored documents with the originals, and goes on his merry way. The commission now has copies of the doctored documents, and Chuck now has the (original) originals. > > Clear? You’re wrong! Chuck uses them to write an application… NONE are ever filed with the commission. They are all still in the box when Chuck leaves for the hearing. Jimmy then returns the originals. Comprende? ---
**Author:** ![btcg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@btcg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/btcg)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/73 "2016-04-20T05:05:11Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Jimmy doctored the originals that HHM received from the client. Chuck produced the paperwork and filed documents with the commission. Documents he redacted himself from doctored originals. Jimmy again replaces the doctored originals with original originals after the fact. > > Everybody thinks Chuck made a mistake but he was working from bad sources, which no longer exist. > > What you appear to be missing is that the documents Chuck filed are not the same ones Jimmy altered. Maybe we need to go slower with him? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/74 "2016-04-20T05:15:49Z")
Yeah, Chuck didn’t actually assemble and submit the filing himself. You don’t pay a senior partner $1,000 / hr to sit there and print out documents and photocopy, staple and bind them himself. HHM gave Chuck copies of all the relevant files. Chuck used those copies to work on the most important and sensitive parts of the filing, and then sent the documents he drafted back to HHM, where a bunch of paralegals and associates used Chuck’s work to complete the filing, without noticing Chuck’s “mistake”. As a result, the filing was inconsistent: it had the correct address in some places (the original documents), and the incorrect address in others (whatever Chuck wrote, and anything derived from it). ---
**Author:** ![btcg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@btcg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/btcg)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/75 "2016-04-20T05:19:40Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Yeah, Chuck didn’t actually assemble and submit the filing himself. You don’t pay a senior partner $1,000 / hr to sit there and print out documents and photocopy, staple and bind them himself. > > HHM gave Chuck copies of all the relevant files. Chuck used those copies to work on the most important and sensitive parts of the filing, and then sent the documents he drafted back to HHM, where a bunch of paralegals and associates used Chuck’s work to complete the filing, without noticing Chuck’s “mistake”. As a result, the filing was inconsistent: it had the correct address in some places (the original documents), and the incorrect address in others (whatever Chuck wrote, and anything derived from it). Exactly! ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/76 "2016-04-20T05:23:12Z")
There’s a lot I love about this series… it’s so well-shot (I loved the opening with Jimmy sitting in the hospital, you think it might be present-day and he’s sitting over Chuck… only for the camera to reveal he’s sitting next to Chuck, over their dying mother, and it’s a flashback). But I too found this episode a bit underwhelming, especially for a finale… because so little actually resolved. I really thought that at least one person (Chuck or Nacho) would die, but nope. I suppose the show is doing well and getting renewed, why rush anything? But I’d really like to actually see some individual Saul Goodman hijinks… now I’m wondering if the show might _end_ with him becoming Saul. My guess is that Chuck and Jimmy reach an agreement that Chuck won’t report him to the state bar, but that Jimmy needs to stop practicing law with the McGill name, hence rebranding himself as Saul Goodman. ---
**Author:** ![btcg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@btcg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/btcg)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/77 "2016-04-20T05:26:12Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > There’s a lot I love about this series… it’s so well-shot (I loved the opening with Jimmy sitting in the hospital, you think it might be present-day and he’s sitting over Chuck… only for the camera to reveal he’s sitting next to Chuck, over their dying mother, and it’s a flashback). **But I too found this episode a bit underwhelming, especially for a finale** … because so little actually resolved. I really thought that at least one person (Chuck or Nacho) would die, but nope. I suppose the show is doing well and getting renewed, why rush anything? But I’d really like to actually see some individual Saul Goodman hijinks… now I’m wondering if the show might _end_ with him becoming Saul. > > My guess is that Chuck and Jimmy reach an agreement that Chuck won’t report him to the state bar, but that Jimmy needs to stop practicing law with the McGill name, hence rebranding himself as Saul Goodman. I totally agree with that. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/78 "2016-04-20T05:54:15Z")
Also, responding to a post upthread: it seemed pretty clear to me that Howard was in on this. Chuck didn’t actually quit, he just sent Howard a letter asking him to call Jimmy (since how else would Chuck get him to come over?) Chuck set up the whole thing as bait for Jimmy, and he had no reason not to let Howard in on it. ---
**Author:** ![btcg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@btcg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/btcg)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/79 "2016-04-20T05:56:51Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Also, responding to a post upthread: it seemed pretty clear to me that Howard was in on this. Chuck didn’t actually quit, he just sent Howard a letter asking him to call Jimmy (since how else would Chuck get him to come over?) Chuck set up the whole thing as bait for Jimmy, and he had no reason not to let Howard in on it. - 1 ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625/80 "2016-04-20T06:03:24Z")
For what it’s worth, here are copies of all of the documents in question. [http://images.sync.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/MVfiles\_2up\_small.pdf](http://images.sync.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/MVfiles_2up_small.pdf) There are some there that are obviously copies of things that would have been mailed out but, yeah, they were probably mailed out before Jimmy made the changes, so I think people may be right when they say that Chuck was the only one who saw the doctored versions. If so then my comments about forensic analysis are obviously moot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-finale/752625.md?page=5)