# Better Call Saul (Season 3) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 8, 2017, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040 "2017-04-08T04:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/501 "2017-05-12T05:58:48Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Yup, that was the only other example I could think of. But as you say, Saul was under a real potential threat, as Jesse was “rabid” at that point. And both he and Badger were “in the game”. It’s a rough game, and people get hurt. But they knew that when they signed up for it (remember, Badger carried a gun, which he flashed at the kid who ultimately killed him). > > By contrast, I’ve never seen any sign that Saul would go along with violence against “civilians”. The closest he ever got that we saw was him somehow abetting the plot to poison Brock (the stupidest storyline ever on the show, but w/e), and he specifically confronted Walt in private, saying “You never told me the kid would end up in the hospital!” That shows Saul’s morality right there. Ummm… Badger didn’t get killed. You’re thinking of Combo. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/502 "2017-05-12T06:19:29Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Ummm… Badger didn’t get killed. You’re thinking of Combo. Oops, my bad. Point stands though. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/503 "2017-05-12T07:32:34Z")
One thing Saul does that is different is the cheesy commercials, Jimmy took pride in his professional looking serious advert and Billboards. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/504 "2017-05-12T12:55:26Z")
My wife and I were discussing the show earlier and she commented she found it odd no-one in _Breaking Bad_ ever said “Didn’t you used to be Jimmy McGill? The one with the crazy brother with the weird allergy to electricity or whatever it was? What’s with the Saul Goodman thing?” From what I recall though, the shows are set in different cities - my understanding is _Better Call Saul_ takes place in Santa Fe, while _Breaking Bad_ was set in Albuquerque. Not sure if that’s right, but might explain how come no-one in BB is aware of Jimmy’s former life (except for Mike and Gus, who have their own reasons for not mentioning it). ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/505 "2017-05-12T13:19:19Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > From what I recall though, the shows are set in different cities - my understanding is _Better Call Saul_ takes place in Santa Fe, while _Breaking Bad_ was set in Albuquerque. Not sure if that’s right, but might explain how come no-one in BB is aware of Jimmy’s former life (except for Mike and Gus, who have their own reasons for not mentioning it). Better Call Saul is set in Albuquerque like Breaking Bad. Jimmy commuted to Santa Fe a few times when working for Davis and Main. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/506 "2017-05-12T14:09:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Secondly, that was in what was essentially Saul’s “pilot” episode. It’s well established in TV that you’re not really expected to consider characterization in a pilot to be rigidly canonical. This does not match with the general character Saul showed over his time on _Breaking Bad_, and I think Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould would agree that they would go back and change that a bit if they could. I agree that aspect can’t be dismissed. Although it tends to be less true in series with a long term story. It’s sometimes pretty radical in albeit lesser TV shows, also in shows where the ‘long arc’ of story is less prominent (anyone recall the change in the affect of the Warrick Brown character in first episode of CSI v later?) In short even good shows aren’t always consistent, then you try to do a prequel? Naturally there will be a tension between exploring new more interesting ground and every single thing the future character said or did in the other series. OTOH although it’s reasonable to consider Saul’s attitude toward _murder_, even of ‘non-civilians’ as distinct from his general law breaking, in BB he is immersed daily in serious non-violent crimes. In BCS he’s just on the edge, or zigzagging back and forth. For example we don’t see him overtly taking advantage of seniors in his senior law practice, but did all the other people he scammed in various flashbacks or past sidetracks of sloooow moving BCS really ‘deserve it’? I don’t see a consistent approach to ethics and morality by Jimmy, though he definitely _sometimes_ thinks about it. So in that respect Saul is kind of similar, even if we attribute some of the inconsistency to how the sharp edges of TV characters tend to get worn down from when they are first introduced. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/507 "2017-05-12T14:25:11Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > From what I recall though, the shows are set in different cities - my understanding is _Better Call Saul_ takes place in Santa Fe, while _Breaking Bad_ was set in Albuquerque. Not sure if that’s right, but might explain how come no-one in BB is aware of Jimmy’s former life (except for Mike and Gus, who have their own reasons for not mentioning it). To add to previous answer (both are set in Albuquerque), Albuquerque is a real city, metro area ~1mil, Santa Fe more of a big town (~70k), included in the larger version of that metro area. Among any discontinuities between the two shows, the fact that the drug dealing world of Albuquerque hasn’t heard of or isn’t interested in Chuck and other particular details of Saul’s back story isn’t one IMO. And it’s not a secret in BB that Saul Goodman isn’t Jimmy’s real name. He mentions it to Walter IIRC pretty soon after meeting him. Also BB has a couple of scenes in Sante Fe, since that’s where Gretchen and Elliot live. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/508 "2017-05-12T16:31:30Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > My wife and I were discussing the show earlier and she commented she found it odd no-one in _Breaking Bad_ ever said “Didn’t you used to be Jimmy McGill? The one with the crazy brother with the weird allergy to electricity or whatever it was? What’s with the Saul Goodman thing?”] I live in a city about half the size of Albequerque, and I couldn’t even tell you who the partners are at any of the big law firms in the area other than two that have obnoxious advertisements (of the sort that HHM and D&M would never use). I certainly don’t remember back-page news about their personal issues or bar proceedings from half a decade ago, unless it was something that hit national news (which the Jimmy/Chuck feud hasn’t and doesn’t look like it will. Also, a good chunk of Saul’s clientele weren’t even in high school yet when the Chuck drama went down and high schoolers rarely follow lawyer follies, remember BB starts around 5 years from ‘now’ in BCS. So, who that we saw was going to comment on “didn’t you used to be Jimmy McGill?” It wouldn’t be any of the guys Saul works with like Huell or Mike, since they already know his past. Jessie and his pals were in middle school and really doesn’t seem like the type to stay up on Bar happenings (bar happenings, yes). Walt wouldn’t have been looking for a lawyer five years before BB so it’s doubtful he’d be following legal drama. Other people he ran into generally weren’t in chatty situations. I just don’t see anyone that Saul ran into who should have recognized his past and would have had a reason to chat with him about it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/509 "2017-05-12T17:21:46Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > So, who that we saw was going to comment on “didn’t you used to be Jimmy McGill?” It wouldn’t be any of the guys Saul works with like Huell or Mike, since they already know his past. Jessie and his pals were in middle school and really doesn’t seem like the type to stay up on Bar happenings (bar happenings, yes). Walt wouldn’t have been looking for a lawyer five years before BB so it’s doubtful he’d be following legal drama. Other people he ran into generally weren’t in chatty situations. I just don’t see anyone that Saul ran into who should have recognized his past and would have had a reason to chat with him about it. I agree. The **only** thing anyone in BB could have heard of, that’s occurred so far in BCS is, “Hey, aren’t you the guy who rescued that guy from the billboard?” but even still, he wasn’t Saul yet and doesn’t BCS happen 6 or so tears before BB? Maybe most people would have forgotten the billboard rescue by then. After all there are tons of things to distract people these days. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/510 "2017-05-12T17:45:17Z")
The only people who probably do know, and would have no reason to mention it on Breaking Bad, are other lawyers and judges he works with every day. Like, I wonder how that smarmy assistant DA will feel after seeing Jimmy get arrested and coming back to court as Saul? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/511 "2017-05-12T17:50:47Z")
In BB he told Walt his real name and claimed that the change was marketing; that his ambulance chaser clientel preferred a Jewish lawyer. Not that that was his real reason, just that he wasn’t all that shy about the name change. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/512 "2017-05-12T18:48:43Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > So according to theR, the bad stuff that Saul did in BB is because he got sucked into the maelstrom, so only the early stuff would count because anything later can be blamed as collateral damage from Heisenberg. But according to SlackerInc, anything that Saul did early doesn’t count, because it was a first appearance, and first appearance actions don’t count. In other words, between their positions there’s nothing I can cite about Saul’s actions on the show that points to his character, because it’s either too early or late. > > My position is that if you’re not going to accept things the character did in the show as pointing out that character’s personality and beliefs, then there’s no ground where we can have a reasonable discussion of the character. I think you’re overblowing what I’m trying to say here. My main point is that Jimmy to Saul is NOT Jimmy “breaking bad.” He didn’t actually change that much, he just got put in situations that pushed him towards the wrong edge of the line. Contrast that with Walter White, who clearly did break bad. He was a completely different person in the first episodes compared to the last. In some ways, he would not have recognized his later self if you showed it to his earlier self, and that was the point of the show. He went from a homebody science teacher who let people walk all over him to a cold-blooded, drug-dealing killer. I just think it’s a mistake to think this show is about Jimmy breaking bad, because that’s not the point of it. His personality and behavior are not really that different between Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad. He is still essentially the same (apart from the way we all change slightly over time), just in more precarious situations in Breaking Bad. The bottom line is that none of that actually matters because it’s just an enjoyable, well-written show. I, personally, just don’t see the point of trying to force a view of the story arc that parallels Breaking Bad. Breaking Bad was like wish fulfillment with a downtrodden ordinary man becoming Scarface, while I think Better Call Saul is depicting something that is, in some ways, much more realistic – a common man who does some good and some bad, but ends up in a situation that he can’t get out of because of both his own decisions and forces outside his control. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/513 "2017-05-12T20:00:57Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > The only people who probably do know, and would have no reason to mention it on Breaking Bad, are other lawyers and judges he works with every day. Like, I wonder how that smarmy assistant DA will feel after seeing Jimmy get arrested and coming back to court as Saul? Yes further on Jimmy’s real name not being any secret in BB, which it’s clearly not, it couldn’t be anyway since he’s practicing the same general type of law\* in the same jurisdiction. No place is big enough that the name change would escape the notice of other court personnel and the police, they’d all know that. But Albuquerque is a big enough place that a different strata of society than Chuck’s wouldn’t know or care what had happened to him, or Kim, unless it turns out some really horrible and infamous thing. Then we might ask why it never came up in BB, but not as of now and plenty of leeway to avoid that problem. \*he was a defense attorney, for smaller fry than Saul, at the beginning of BCS before ‘senior law’. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/514 "2017-05-12T20:01:27Z")
> [@theR](#): > > I think you’re overblowing what I’m trying to say here. My main point is that Jimmy to Saul is NOT Jimmy “breaking bad.” He didn’t actually change that much, he just got put in situations that pushed him towards the wrong edge of the line. You’re the one who picked that turn of phrase, I never made the claim that this show is about Jimmy ‘breaking bad’. As I understand the original phrase, it refers to a sudden jump from ‘good guy’ to ‘bad guy’ and that hasn’t happened with Jimmy and I don’t expect it to happen with Jimmy. I don’t really understand why you think I’m taking the rather specific position that you’re arguing against, especially since I make a point not to use the phrase ‘breaking bad’ to refer to Saul’s character development. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/515 "2017-05-12T20:39:10Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > I agree that aspect can’t be dismissed. Although it tends to be less true in series with a long term story. It’s sometimes pretty radical in albeit lesser TV shows, also in shows where the ‘long arc’ of story is less prominent (anyone recall the change in the affect of the Warrick Brown character in first episode of CSI v later?) > > In short even good shows aren’t always consistent, then you try to do a prequel? Naturally there will be a tension between exploring new more interesting ground and every single thing the future character said or did in the other series. > > OTOH although it’s reasonable to consider Saul’s attitude toward _murder_, even of ‘non-civilians’ as distinct from his general law breaking, in BB he is immersed daily in serious non-violent crimes. In BCS he’s just on the edge, or zigzagging back and forth. For example we don’t see him overtly taking advantage of seniors in his senior law practice, but did all the other people he scammed in various flashbacks or past sidetracks of sloooow moving BCS really ‘deserve it’? I don’t see a consistent approach to ethics and morality by Jimmy, though he definitely _sometimes_ thinks about it. So in that respect Saul is kind of similar, even if we attribute some of the inconsistency to how the sharp edges of TV characters tend to get worn down from when they are first introduced. Fair points. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/516 "2017-05-13T00:01:22Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > To add to previous answer (both are set in Albuquerque), Albuquerque is a real city, metro area ~1mil, Santa Fe more of a big town (~70k), included in the larger version of that metro area. Among any discontinuities between the two shows, the fact that the drug dealing world of Albuquerque hasn’t heard of or isn’t interested in Chuck and other particular details of Saul’s back story isn’t one IMO. And it’s not a secret in BB that Saul Goodman isn’t Jimmy’s real name. He mentions it to Walter IIRC pretty soon after meeting him. > > Also BB has a couple of scenes in Sante Fe, since that’s where Gretchen and Elliot live. Thanks - that makes sense. I know that the “Saul Goodman” thing isn’t secret, but I still think there’d be people who might know and ask questions - even leaving aside the legal fraternity, you’re going to have journalists, former clients, and people who watch a lot of TV (Jimmy McGill advertised quite a bit, it seems) noticing the Jimmy/Saul thing. Of course, this is assuming he changed his name for a reason beyond the one he gave in BB - namely that the sort of clients he worked with liked the idea of having a “Jewish Lawyer”. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/517 "2017-05-13T00:09:29Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Thanks - that makes sense. I know that the “Saul Goodman” thing isn’t secret, but I still think there’d be people who might know and ask questions - even leaving aside the legal fraternity, you’re going to have journalists, former clients, and people who watch a lot of TV (Jimmy McGill advertised quite a bit, it seems) noticing the Jimmy/Saul thing. By the time of BB Jimmy had probably been Saul long enough that the novelty had worn off and the change was no longer remarkable. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/518 "2017-05-13T00:44:37Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > You’re the one who picked that turn of phrase, I never made the claim that this show is about Jimmy ‘breaking bad’. As I understand the original phrase, it refers to a sudden jump from ‘good guy’ to ‘bad guy’ and that hasn’t happened with Jimmy and I don’t expect it to happen with Jimmy. I don’t really understand why you think I’m taking the rather specific position that you’re arguing against, especially since I make a point not to use the phrase ‘breaking bad’ to refer to Saul’s character development. Ok. ---
**Author:** ![DrForrester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/519 "2017-05-13T02:38:04Z")
Saul’s throwaway line about the name change being because some of his clients preferred a “member of the tribe” was an excuse, not a reason. In other words, it was a lie intended to move the conversation along to other things. The reason for the name change has not yet been fully revealed as yet, although we certainly have seen some important elements in the story set into place. In fact, you might think of all of BCS being the answer to that question. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/520 "2017-05-13T04:35:17Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > By the time of BB Jimmy had probably been Saul long enough that the novelty had worn off and the change was no longer remarkable. Possibly, but the current series of BCS is set five years before BB so unless the pace picks up a bit, we’re going to run into a situation where the name change is still recent enough for it to be remarkable or vaguely memorable, IMO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040.md?page=27)