# Better Call Saul (Season 3) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 8, 2017, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040 "2017-04-08T04:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/901 "2017-06-08T21:00:49Z")
Jumping away from the ‘knows’ insanity, would anyone else find it amusing to see Chuck stuck having to deal with David St Hubbins (Michael McKean’s character from Spinal Tap) for an extended time? Hubbins seems like the kind of person who would drive Chuck completely up the wall, even aside from all the electric amps and lasers. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > You are the one who brought it up again out of the blue! Sheesh. No, I said that Kim knows that Jimmy did it, because I was discussing what bad behavior Jimmy has engaged in that she knows about and her reaction to his behavior. I didn’t say anything about anyone in the show proving that she knows it, or her being convicted of anything, YOU are the one who said “and KNOWING it in a way that implicates her in legal hot water if it becomes a proven fact in a court of law” and “does not have incontrovertible proof and/or metaphysical certitude,” not me. I don’t know what your deal is, but you making statements and trying to say that I brought them up just gets silly. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/902 "2017-06-08T21:46:23Z")
Yes, back to David St. Hubbins please. And the patron Saint of quality footwear. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/903 "2017-06-08T22:19:35Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Tuco was killed in episode 2 of the second season of BB, and Saul doesn’t appear until episode 8, so no. Yes but as was later clarified the intended point was that only if you’d seen BB did you fully realize what a violent lunatic, Tuco, it was that Jimmy was dealing with in BCS. On the more general point of restrictions BB places on BCS it suggests a question. I watched all of BB once, but that’s enough for me to retain every detail. I think I recall a) it came as a surprise to Saul that Mike was Gus’ man, and more Gus’ than his. I took that to mean Saul didn’t know much about Gus, though might have heard of him (guy who knew a guy, etc). b) Saul knew something of the Hector, Tuco etc end of things, just a general recollection. What else was it clear in BB that Saul did or didn’t know about Gus, Hector, their underlyings or successors, and who they were both connected to in Mexico? A short thumbnail please from somebody who retained all the details. 🙂 To help in speculating how the ending of BCS could involve this set of characters from BB, assuming the Jimmy/Mike parallel tracks come together at some point. It would seem a stretch for it to involve direct contact between Gus and Jimmie seems to me, not ruled out but weighed against by fact a) (assuming I remember that correctly). ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/904 "2017-06-08T22:31:55Z")
As an aside to the know vs. know discussion, did Jimmy or Kim at any time during the bar hearing assert that Jimmy didn’t actually mess with the Mesa Verde documents? Jimmy introduced evidence showing how sick Chuck was (is) acting, but did he actually say “I lied to Chuck to make him feel better” or something more like “I told Chuck I did it to make him feel better”? The former is a lie and the latter is truth. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/905 "2017-06-08T23:02:26Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > a) it came as a surprise to Saul that Mike was Gus’ man, and more Gus’ than his. I took that to mean Saul didn’t know much about Gus, though might have heard of him (guy who knew a guy, etc). Mike appears for the first time in BB in the last episode of season 2 as Saul’s “cleaner” to remove signs of drugs from Jesse’s house after Jana dies. According to the BB Wiki, this was unplanned: originally Saul was supposed to do the job himself, but Odenkirk had a scheduling conflict, so Jonathan Banks was brought in. The character proved so popular he was brought back in season 3. I assume he needed more to do on the show and so was made into Gus’s right-hand man instead of Saul’s. So Mike, Gus, and Saul’s relationships were retconned a bit in the third season. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/906 "2017-06-09T00:24:22Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I don’t know what your deal is, but you making statements and trying to say that I brought them up just gets silly. Sigh. As the saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. Here are the facts which you can verify by looking back in the thread. On May 25 was the last volley in our original exchange on the word “know”. I very graciously gave you the last word and in fact pivoted that same day to complimenting one of your posts. You responded by saying at least I’m “not the kind of guy who would put ribs on a burger”, and I thought it was peace in our time. Neither of us addressed each other after that until May 30, when I quoted your entire post and again said I agreed with you. Then again, another week went by without either of us addressing each other…until, in post number 869, you quoted one of my posts on an unrelated matter and then fired the following shot across my bow: > [@](#): > > (I know some people insist that somehow she doesn’t know he did it, but FFS she told him that if he did it he should go to the copy place and close up loose ends, and he jumped in the car right away). Aaand we were off to the races again. I don’t know how any honest person could look over all that and say that you were the one wanting to drop it and I was the one who wouldn’t let it go. :dubious: Unless we entered Bizarro World when I wasn’t paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/907 "2017-06-09T00:42:38Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > As an aside to the know vs. know discussion, did Jimmy or Kim at any time during the bar hearing assert that Jimmy didn’t actually mess with the Mesa Verde documents? Jimmy introduced evidence showing how sick Chuck was (is) acting, but did he actually say “I lied to Chuck to make him feel better” or something more like “I told Chuck I did it to make him feel better”? The former is a lie and the latter is truth. Aha–I like the way you think, sir! Very clever. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/908 "2017-06-09T12:48:39Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > 1. This is (I think) the first time Jimmy helps a drug dealer commit a crime. He’s not just defending them in court, he’s offering (unsolicited, even) to facilitate their commission of a crime using his expert knowledge of the law. It’s a big step on the road to becoming the Saul Goodman we know and love I don’t understand how this is Jimmy helping a drug dealer commit a crime. Can you elaborate? AFAIK, the guy wanted to leave to go to the hospital, but the guy in charge wouldn’t let him. What crime is that? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/909 "2017-06-09T13:20:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t understand how this is Jimmy helping a drug dealer commit a crime. Can you elaborate? AFAIK, the guy wanted to leave to go to the hospital, but the guy in charge wouldn’t let him. What crime is that? They guy was lying about the hospital. The call he got wasn’t about a sick kid, it was from someone who wanted to purchase illegal drugs. Jimmy called him on it: “Your occupation rhymes with mug mealer”. Plus the guy, like most of us don’t, had $2000 dollars in his sock. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/910 "2017-06-09T13:31:03Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t understand how this is Jimmy helping a drug dealer commit a crime. Can you elaborate? AFAIK, the guy wanted to leave to go to the hospital, but the guy in charge wouldn’t let him. What crime is that? The “leaving to go to the hospital” was a ruse so he could go and make a drug (or equally dodgy) deal. Not quite sure what Sherlock Holmes-level deduction Jimmy made to reach that conclusion, but it appears to have been correct. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/911 "2017-06-09T13:34:16Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I don’t know how any honest person could look over all that and say that you were the one wanting to drop it and I was the one who wouldn’t let it go. :dubious: Unless we entered Bizarro World when I wasn’t paying attention. I never entered some kind of agreement that I would never discuss Kim’s motivations again, and since the fact that Kim knows of a number of bad things that Jimmy does is key to examining her character, the agreement you think I reached would require me not to discuss a major part the show. You don’t get to just invent some kind of deal in your head, then accuse me of dishonesty for not sticking to it. Since as far as I can tell everyone has conceded that it’s clear that Kim knows Jimmy altered the documents by the ordinary English definition of the word, I’m not sure why you keep trying to argue about it, but regardless of how much you want to deny it you’re the one dragging in some weird definition of ‘know’ and stuff about “does not have incontrovertible proof and/or metaphysical certitude,” which are completely irrelevant to the actual discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/912 "2017-06-09T13:42:38Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t understand how this is Jimmy helping a drug dealer commit a crime. Can you elaborate? AFAIK, the guy wanted to leave to go to the hospital, but the guy in charge wouldn’t let him. What crime is that? In Jimmy’s conversation with the drug dealer, he makes it clear that he knows that the hospital story is a ruse and that he knows the guy is a drug dealer who’s carrying a few thousand dollars in his sock. The guy doesn’t deny it and agrees to pay Jimmy $700 from a big roll of money to get out of community service, which he’s unlikely to be able or willing to do if he’s just a regular working guy. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/913 "2017-06-09T13:45:20Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > In Jimmy’s conversation with the drug dealer, he makes it clear that he knows that the hospital story is a ruse and that he knows the guy is a drug dealer who’s carrying a few thousand dollars in his sock. The guy doesn’t deny it and agrees to pay Jimmy $700 from a big roll of money to get out of community service, which he’s unlikely to be able or willing to do if he’s just a regular working guy. But does Jimmy really “know” that? ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/914 "2017-06-09T14:07:48Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > But does Jimmy really “know” that? Sure he does. He’s been on this community service detail more than once. He’s had opportunity to observe the “regulars”, and it would be highly unlikely that this was the first time the “mug mealer” took a call when he wasn’t supposed to. Jimmy has a past of running con games, which would require observing and remembering lots of behaviors that most of us wouldn’t notice. And not just observing, but doing so in a way that the potential marks wouldn’t even notice they were being watched. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/915 "2017-06-09T14:55:54Z")
**Pantastic** , seriously when you brought the “know” thing _back_ up in post as a snarky aside I almost let out an audible “oy.” Several posters here disagree with you. You disagree with them. It happens. The point of contention was really back in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20230082&postcount=646) where you claimed that the level of her “knowing” was such that she was committing “an ethical offense and a crime” by soliciting what she “knew” was false or at least misleading testimony from Jimmy, that she is “supposed to disclose the crime that led sabotaging the competition for her account, that she knows happened.” That was conflating the meanings of “know” from the common use one (like “Jimmy knows the guy is a drug dealer”) and the legal one (“Jimmy could not testify that he knows the guy is drug dealer, he has only surmised it”). You won’t change your POV and we others won’t change ours. Please let it go already. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/916 "2017-06-09T14:55:58Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I never entered some kind of agreement that I would never discuss Kim’s motivations again, and since the fact that Kim knows of a number of bad things that Jimmy does is key to examining her character, the agreement you think I reached would require me not to discuss a major part the show. You don’t get to just invent some kind of deal in your head, then accuse me of dishonesty for not sticking to it. Since as far as I can tell everyone has conceded that it’s clear that Kim knows Jimmy altered the documents by the ordinary English definition of the word, I’m not sure why you keep trying to argue about it, but regardless of how much you want to deny it you’re the one dragging in some weird definition of ‘know’ and stuff about “does not have incontrovertible proof and/or metaphysical certitude,” which are completely irrelevant to the actual discussion. For God’s sake, let it know! Oops. I mean go. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/917 "2017-06-09T15:45:05Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > They guy was lying about the hospital. The call he got wasn’t about a sick kid, it was from someone who wanted to purchase illegal drugs. > > Jimmy called him on it: “Your occupation rhymes with mug mealer”. Plus the guy, like most of us don’t, had $2000 dollars in his sock. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > The “leaving to go to the hospital” was a ruse so he could go and make a drug (or equally dodgy) deal. Not quite sure what Sherlock Holmes-level deduction Jimmy made to reach that conclusion, but it appears to have been correct. > [@Pantastic](#): > > In Jimmy’s conversation with the drug dealer, he makes it clear that he knows that the hospital story is a ruse and that he knows the guy is a drug dealer who’s carrying a few thousand dollars in his sock. The guy doesn’t deny it and agrees to pay Jimmy $700 from a big roll of money to get out of community service, which he’s unlikely to be able or willing to do if he’s just a regular working guy. I guess I should stop playing the 2nd most addicting game on the internet while watching this show :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/918 "2017-06-09T16:08:25Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > In Jimmy’s conversation with the drug dealer, he makes it clear that he knows that the hospital story is a ruse and that he knows the guy is a drug dealer who’s carrying a few thousand dollars in his sock. The guy doesn’t deny it and agrees to pay Jimmy $700 from a big roll of money to get out of community service, which he’s unlikely to be able or willing to do if he’s just a regular working guy. Wow, I thought it was a drug dealer who really had a sick kid in the hospital :smack:. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/919 "2017-06-09T16:12:48Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Wow, I thought it was a drug dealer who really had a sick kid in the hospital :smack:. You and me both. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040/920 "2017-06-09T16:21:07Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The point of contention was really back in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20230082&postcount=646) where you claimed that the level of her “knowing” was such that she was committing “an ethical offense and a crime” by soliciting what she “knew” was false or at least misleading testimony from Jimmy, that she is “supposed to disclose the crime that led sabotaging the competition for her account, that she knows happened.” Yes. The ethical offense relies only on her knowledge, there isn’t some magical special legal definition of “know” involved. I actually cited New Mexico Bar association page on the topic to back that up. Meanwhile, none of you have provided a cite for this alleged legal definition of know, because you’ve invented the concept yourselves and it isn’t an actual legal concept. > [@](#): > > Please let it go already. I am here to discuss the show, and part of the show is Kim’s relationship with Jimmy, which involves her knowledge of some of his illicit activities. I am not going to stop discussing the show. You and your cronies are perfectly free to stop arguing about your bizarro definition of know any time you like, but I’m not going to stop using the English language word ‘know’ just because some people have a bug up their butt about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-3/784040.md?page=47)