# Better Call Saul: Season IV **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 30, 2018, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792 "2018-07-30T04:48:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/283 "2018-08-29T02:26:21Z")
My impression of Kim’s issue was that she was fine being outside counsel for a small business, but did not want to become the go to person for a corporate empire. That’s why she went to the courtroom to see what “real” law was like and representing “real” people. The judge warned her that if she stuck around that she would be appointed counsel for criminal defendants. She stayed anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/284 "2018-08-29T03:42:08Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > So, did anyone else get the vibe that the phone store is actually a front for money laundering? > > He gets a call in the morning, and by afternoon, he’s there, all alone, in complete charge of the whole store. The only contact we see with his boss is over the phone. There’s literally no customers, and the boss doesn’t seem to mind at all. I thought it was odd but I thought it might be a Hollywood writer’s idea of what working retail is like. Seems like Jimmy has an angle though. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/285 "2018-08-29T04:00:36Z")
The money laundering idea is interesting, given that this is a big preoccupation of Saul’s in BB. ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/286 "2018-08-29T04:17:54Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Anybody remember if that strip mall cell phone store is the same place that Saul’s constitution-wallpapered office is located in Breaking Bad? It didn’t seem like the exact same location, but the whole strip mall vibe reminded me of it anyway. No, two different filming locations. The cell phone store is next to the ACE Case Express near the northwest corner of Menaul and San Pedro, just west of Coronado Mall. Duke City Bar at the southeast corner of Montgomery and Eubank occupies Saul Goodman’s law office. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/287 "2018-08-29T04:34:11Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The judge warned her that if she stuck around that she would be appointed counsel for criminal defendants. She stayed anyways. Is that even a thing? Can a judge force a lawyer to take a case against their will? I assumed Kim stayed because she knew that was bullshit and the judge had no power to keep her from sitting in on his courtroom. ---
**Author:** ![ebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@ebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ebb)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/288 "2018-08-29T05:36:00Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Is that even a thing? Can a judge force a lawyer to take a case against their will? I assumed Kim stayed because she knew that was bullshit and the judge had no power to keep her from sitting in on his courtroom. I’m not a lawyer and have no idea what the law is in New Mexico. But it reminded me of this case from Missouri that was in the papers two years ago: > **[Court rules public defender can't appoint Missouri governor as a defense...](https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/government-politics/court-rules-public-defender-can-t-appoint-missouri-governor-as/article_c59059f8-98c8-50fe-9068-12a9b092b7f3.html)** > > The state's lead public defender appointed Gov. Nixon to defend a poor Missourian, citing overburdened staff and inadequate funding. Citing budget shortfalls, the top public defender in the state tried to appoint the Governor, who was also a member of the state bar, to defend a particular indigent defendant. This was sort of a stunt to draw attention to the underfunded judicial department. A court ruled that this wasn’t possible, since only the courts – not the public defenders office – had the power to appoint attorneys. But the case wasn’t dismissed out of hand with a ruling of “Of course you can’t just pick a random person who happens to be a lawyer and force them to do this, you knob”. It was just a matter of the wrong person trying to exercise that power. So for what it’s worth, Judge Neelix’s threat seems like a credible one in Missouri in 2016. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/289 "2018-08-29T05:51:53Z")
Yeah, I’m having trouble finding a cite, but judges can appoint attorneys because the right to counsel has to be adhered to. Now, most places have set up a panel of attorneys to be referred cases, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the county in New Mexico they’re in is a bit more lax in that regard. So maybe Kim is sticking around because she wants to be appointed? I can’t help but feel Jimmy was thinking of something to put on top of the roof of the store. Maybe some sort of inflatable… ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/290 "2018-08-29T06:00:48Z")
> [@Strainger](#): > > No, two different filming locations. The cell phone store is next to the ACE Case Express near the northwest corner of Menaul and San Pedro, just west of Coronado Mall. Duke City Bar at the southeast corner of Montgomery and Eubank occupies Saul Goodman’s law office. Nice detail! I find it somewhat surprising these places don’t lean into the untapped tourism potential more. There are regular BB tours in Albuquerque, right? So why wouldn’t this Duke City Bar make itself the “Better Call Saul Saloon” or something, complete with pillars and a giant Constitution? Why doesn’t the woman who owns Walt’s house make it look like that set inside and charge for tours on Saturday? Etc. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/291 "2018-08-29T06:18:13Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > So, did anyone else get the vibe that the phone store is actually a front for money laundering? > … I didn’t think of that, but it makes sense. Maybe Jimmy’s “we sell privacy” stunt will draw attention to the store and cause trouble for the launderers. Or maybe increased sales will make the laundering easier, they’ll like him, and they’ll end up offering him additional “work”. Regarding Kim; is she trying to get assigned to some criminal case? Is she looking for an excuse to be able to tell Mesa Verde that she can’t handle their case anymore and they need to find a new attorney? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/292 "2018-08-29T06:32:45Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Is that even a thing? Can a judge force a lawyer to take a case against their will? I assumed Kim stayed because she knew that was bullshit and the judge had no power to keep her from sitting in on his courtroom. Theoretically? It depends on the juridiction and hell within the different parts of the jurisdiction. Practically? Yes he can and the pressure on her to accept will be basically irresitable. Its a big professional no-no to turn down without sufficient cause. I have personally had multiple occassion to try and be inconspicious in Court room when the judge starts looking around for a [del] sacrificial lamb[/del] _respected member of the Bar_ to take up this case for a litigant for [del] a minute amount I’ll probably never see and which won’t make a dent in expenses[/del] fees which are appropriate for the case or pro bono. I have often not succeeded. The law and legal life aspect of this show has been generally spot on. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/293 "2018-08-29T06:45:27Z")
Love that insight! Which is more accurate, this show or _The Good Wife/Good Fight_? Or have you not seen those CBS shows? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/294 "2018-08-29T09:55:09Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Love that insight! Which is more accurate, this show or _The Good Wife/Good Fight_? Or have you not seen those CBS shows? For what it’s worth I recall one of those two shows (i don’t recall which) depicting a judge forcing an attorney to take a case. I also recall Denny Crane (William Shatner) in _Boston Legal_ trying to get out of such a requirement. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/295 "2018-08-29T13:32:29Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Theoretically? It depends on the juridiction and hell within the different parts of the jurisdiction. > > Practically? Yes he can and the pressure on her to accept will be basically irresitable. Its a big professional no-no to turn down without sufficient cause. > I have personally had multiple occassion to try and be inconspicious in Court room when the judge starts looking around for a [del] sacrificial lamb[/del] _respected member of the Bar_ to take up this case for a litigant for [del] a minute amount I’ll probably never see and which won’t make a dent in expenses[/del] fees which are appropriate for the case or pro bono. I have often not succeeded. > > The law and legal life aspect of this show has been generally spot on. Agreed. In my jurisdiction a judge can absolutely appoint you against your will, but as a practical matter a judge will not do so unless backed up against the wall. I’ve never been appointed against my will; judges around here keep a list of attorneys who are willing to take appointed cases and when the list runs dry, they “ask” that you put your name on the list. However, when a judge is “asking” it is very difficult to say no, not because he will be petty and use it against you, but because it is good business to impress a judge. When I first started, I had made a decision not to get involved in child abuse and neglect cases. Just didn’t want to do it. The law here requires that any attorney who practices in that area must take special training every two years. My out was “Gee, Judge, I would love to take the case, but I do not have the mandatory required training; just have never had the time to do it.” That got me out of it for a while until one day a judge asked me what I was doing the following Wednesday. He knew damned well what I was doing the following Wednesday because I was scheduled to be in front of him for a pre-trial hearing all day. When I told him that, he continued the hearing on his own motion and told me that his secretary had enrolled me in the training and it was all paid for. No way out of that one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/296 "2018-08-29T14:05:52Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > So, did anyone else get the vibe that the phone store is actually a front for money laundering? Not really, it seemed to me like the corporate office decided that they need X coverage of stores so they opened one at that location, even though it’s not really doing well. It will probably get closed at some point, but right now it looks better on some manager’s presentation to have a store here. Also bear in mind that this show takes place five years before the 2008 recession, so companies were more willing to spend cash on things like that. Not that today we have a lack companies like Uber and MoviePass that keep burning investor money to operate at a loss hoping for some eventual development, but it is a bit rarer. It’s not impossible that the store is some kind of money laundering scheme, but it doesn’t read as one to me, and it fits the plot without needing to be one. > [@Colibri](#): > > Is that even a thing? Can a judge force a lawyer to take a case against their will? I assumed Kim stayed because she knew that was bullshit and the judge had no power to keep her from sitting in on his courtroom. Yes, judges can ‘force’ lawyers to take cases. In a lot of cases it’s more being voluntold than ‘forced’, but appointing lawyers to take cases is a thing that actually happens all the time. I think you’re reading a lot of hostility into something that to me was pretty clearly a friendly interaction. Also as an aside a judge actually has broad power to keep someone from sitting in on his courtroom, if the judge actually didn’t want her in his courtroom he could just order her out and she’d have to engage in long legal proceedings to contest it. > [@UltraVires](#): > > My impression of Kim’s issue was that she was fine being outside counsel for a small business, but did not want to become the go to person for a corporate empire. That’s why she went to the courtroom to see what “real” law was like and representing “real” people. I think Kim saw Mesa Verde as the one big client that would let her establish her practice, and after a few years she’d have the money and reputation to do ‘real’ lawyering she wants. After seeing the expansion plans, she realizes that it’s not really going to work that way, and that not only will she be doing this for the forseeable future, but she’ll have to hire and manage a permanent staff to deal with all of the work. She’s not nearly as loath to ‘do the needful’ as Jimmy is, and would certainly not have put on a circus at Franklin and Main if she worked there, but what she’s seeing in her future is not that different from working at HHM (though more profitable) and that doesn’t seem to be her real calling. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/297 "2018-08-29T15:13:20Z")
I’m not 100% sure we really know what’s going on with Kim… what happened to everyone being certain it had something to do with Nebraska after last week? I was sure that, as a throwaway, one of the cases that Kim was watching was going to be people vs Jesse Pinkman, then no further mention of it… ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/298 "2018-08-29T18:21:18Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Doesn’t a hangup to 911 bring cops? So would running gun battles that make Aleppo seem tame. So would blowing up a half-city block. So would starting a range fire. There _are no police_ in the BCS and BB universe. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/299 "2018-08-29T19:26:34Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > So would running gun battles that make Aleppo seem tame. So would blowing up a half-city block. So would starting a range fire. > > There _are no police_ in the BCS and BB universe. :rolleyes: Yeah, BCS and BB often go for the “rule of cool” rather than plausibility. I was thinking this when Victor and Tyrus were shooting up the car. Even in New Mexico, there can’t be many paved roads deserted enough where you could just fire a barrage like that and be sure no one would pass by. The scene would be visible from many miles away too. I also thought that the scene would never be credible after forensic analysis by CSI, but then I realized that the audience wasn’t law enforcement but the Salamancas, who are some of the biggest dumbasses ever. How could even the twins be stupid enough not to realize that the car hadn’t be shot up in an ambush, with bullet holes coming from all angles and not focused on the passengers? How could the attackers have put hundreds of bullets into the car without killing everyone inside? The twins are badasses, but aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed. In BB they try to sneak across the border in a migrant bus while wearing their extremely distinctive outfits, then kill everyone aboard just because some kid recognizes their boots. And then, they _set fire to the bus_, making an enormous smoke signal that is going to attract attention from 20 miles around while they try to escape on foot.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/300 "2018-08-29T20:25:25Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > There _are no police_ in the BCS and BB universe. :rolleyes: Hank would disagree. Well, he can’t, because he’s dead.. Seriously, I’ve often been curious about this. Take the scene from this very episode with the cousins and the gun battle at the hotel. Assuming there’s a hotel VERY clearly not in a nice part of town. Presumably there aren’t really “neighbors”, but if there were, they had learned to keep their heads down. But at the same time there is heavy weapons fire and gas explosions. How long would it before someone called 911? How long would it take cops to get there? Would the first cop anywhere near the scene see the level of carnage and sensibly bunker down and call for SWAT? Honestly, I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/301 "2018-08-29T20:35:39Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Hank would disagree. Well, he can’t, because he’s dead.. > Seriously, I’ve often been curious about this. Take the scene from this very episode with the cousins and the gun battle at the hotel. Assuming there’s a hotel VERY clearly not in a nice part of town. Presumably there aren’t really “neighbors”, but if there were, they had learned to keep their heads down. But at the same time there is heavy weapons fire and gas explosions. How long would it before someone called 911? How long would it take cops to get there? Would the first cop anywhere near the scene see the level of carnage and sensibly bunker down and call for SWAT? > > Honestly, I’m not sure. The cops being selectively oblivious is actually pretty realistic. There are lots of “bad parts of town”, world over which police rarely enter or if they do they do so in force. It’s an area which has a heavy presence of cartels. If there is heavy gunfire reported, they aren’t sending some beat cops in a soft skinned vehicle with a pistol and a radio. They are sending in much more heavily armed and protected group. After they have done heavy surveillance. By which time the battles over and all the cops have to do is pick up the dead. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/302 "2018-08-29T20:42:52Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Practically? Yes he can and the pressure on her to accept will be basically irresitable. Its a big professional no-no to turn down without sufficient cause. > I have personally had multiple occassion to try and be inconspicious in Court room when the judge starts looking around for a [del] sacrificial lamb[/del] _respected member of the Bar_ to take up this case for a litigant for [del] a minute amount I’ll probably never see and which won’t make a dent in expenses[/del] fees which are appropriate for the case or pro bono. I have often not succeeded. > [@UltraVires](#): > > Agreed. In my jurisdiction a judge can absolutely appoint you against your will, but as a practical matter a judge will not do so unless backed up against the wall. I’ve never been appointed against my will; judges around here keep a list of attorneys who are willing to take appointed cases and when the list runs dry, they “ask” that you put your name on the list. > > However, when a judge is “asking” it is very difficult to say no, not because he will be petty and use it against you, but because it is good business to impress a judge. > [@Pantastic](#): > > Yes, judges can ‘force’ lawyers to take cases. In a lot of cases it’s more being voluntold than ‘forced’, but appointing lawyers to take cases is a thing that actually happens all the time. Thanks for the insights into this. But I’m still not entirely clear on what the legal basis is for this. I understand that there may be overwhelming pressure from the judge (and maybe the rest of the legal profession) to go along with this, and that someone might suffer “unofficial” repercussions. But what would be the actual legal consequences of refusing to take an appointed case? A fine? Disbarment? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792.md?page=16)