# Better Call Saul: Season IV **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 30, 2018, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792 "2018-07-30T04:48:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1023 "2018-10-03T22:09:37Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Because she’s a paranoid, bloodthirsty person who likes to close up loose ends by killing people. Her exact motive would be shown if she did it - it could be an example to the others, it could be that she thinks the wife knows more from those long phone calls, it could be that Mike won’t kill Werner so she does it to force his hand, there are a lot of things that could be a reason if they go that way. I don’t find any of those at all plausible. Mike dislikes her because she’s an untrustworthy slimebag. There doesn’t need to be more to it than that. ---
**Author:** ![soonerblue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/soonerblue/32/3302_2.png) [@soonerblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soonerblue)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1024 "2018-10-03T23:58:20Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > The creators have actually been pretty explicit that is exactly what they do and very deliberately so :). While they start with an overarching plan, it is left pretty loose. This gives them the freedom to wander down paths that interest them if they find a story line or actor that is working better than expected. And they have the freedom to quietly eject what doesn’t seem to be working( for them ). They enjoy the pressure of having to work on the fly - it adds extra motivation in the writing room. > > For most TV shows I’d say this would be a weakness. The team assembled for this show and BB has made it mostly a powerful virtue. You, and Pantastic, are right of course, the loose story lines are what makes this show so gripping and fascinating. Also - my friend thinks I owe Nacho an apology, that he wouldn’t bother an old lady’s purse no matter the contents. I have to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1025 "2018-10-04T00:07:48Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Howard testifies at Jimmy’s hearing about how Chuck actually treated Jimmy. Interesting idea. And quite plausible, at least at first blush. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1026 "2018-10-04T00:09:18Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Walt was not remotely an innocent. Since Sam was referencing the idea of Mike killing Werner in cold blood, and Werner is as you note also not an innocent, I took him to mean that it wasn’t Mike’s M.O. to kill someone “in cold blood” (I believe that was how Sam put it), meaning someone who is not being violent, not someone Mike needs to put down to defend himself, and not someone who has killed or threatened Mike’s loved ones…etc. A premeditated act based on Gus’s orders. And while I’d agree that someone who has only watched BCS has not seen Mike do that (and in fact has seen him seem to have a code of honor in opposition to that kind of thing), he was in BB very casually preparing to do just this to Walt (and Jesse if he could find him). ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1027 "2018-10-04T00:33:32Z")
Does Lydia even know about the project? I should think the fewer who are involved, the better. As for you, Pantastic - Objection! Howard testifying at the hearing about how Chuck treated Jimmy is totally irrelevant, and hearsay. Please disregard… Why bring it up, for what purpose? Chuck’s name hasn’t come up at all, and since when does Howard give a flying fig about Jimmy getting reinstated? His very unlikely sharing with that bunch about Chuck’s supposed shabby treatment of Jimmy is out of nowhere, and should not affect their decision, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1028 "2018-10-04T00:43:54Z")
Lydia is the one who found the laundry site and showed it to Gus. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1029 "2018-10-04T01:25:35Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Lydia is the one who found the laundry site and showed it to Gus. OH! I was in and out that night, I missed that entirely! Doh! Thank you! ! ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1030 "2018-10-04T02:34:25Z")
[Here’s the scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd3ZzPC3Esg). “OK then.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1031 "2018-10-04T13:12:17Z")
> [@soonerblue](#): > > I was betting good money that Werner would be blown up - such a brilliant suspenceful scene directed by Vince Gilligan. My wife reminded me that this was what Breaking Bad was like _all the time_. I couldn’t watch more than two episodes in a row because it was just _so intense_. I had to catch my breath for a few days after. That said, I wasn’t very worried about Werner there. Blowing him up would have been too cliche, and these guys are supposed to be experienced professionals, not a bunch of criminals trying to figure out how to work a bomb for the first time. Werner’s fear was a symbolic fear of Mike and Gus. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1032 "2018-10-04T14:24:43Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I interpreted Kim’s “We can start with that” comment to be about whether Jimmy actually wants to be a lawyer or not. To paraphrase how I interpreted their conversation: > > Kim: Do you even want to be a lawyer? If you did, you would have mentioned Chuck at the hearing. Since you didn’t do that, it’s only reasonable to conclude that you don’t want to be a lawyer anymore, and are committing suicide-by-hearing to force yourself to stop being a lawyer. > > Jimmy: I do want to be lawyer. > > Kim: Okay, we can start with that. (Meaning: Stop self-sabotaging, and let’s figure out what our options are to get you reinstated.) This is exactly how I interpreted it. “You really want to be a lawyer? It’s gonna be tough, but at least you have a strong nail (your internal drive) to hang your hat on. That’s good; let’s start with that.” > [@TruCelt](#): > > Ponch-eh-train, right? How do you say “Coushatta?” > > And you are correct about “y’all”, but the question is,would an Albuquerquian ADA know that? I think PONCH’-uh-train it a bit closer than PONCH’-eh-train, but it’s subtle and either of those work. First syllable is clearly stressed. That’s very important. Certainly not Ponch-AR’-train. In “Coushatta,” the “a” sound is like “cat.” And is the stressed syllable. Koo-SHAT’-uh. I think they had the right stress point, but Jimmy pronounced the “a” rhyming with “ah” like “otter” (Koosh-OUGHT-a) As far as what he ADA knew or didn’t know, why take chances? Maybe 95% of the time, you could be sloppy on accents and no one would know the difference, but why risk that the ADA has kinfolk from that general region (not necessarily Coushatta, specifically), or went to school somewhere in LA, MS, or in TX east of Dallas? It’d take 20 minutes to research how to pronounce the town you are supposedly in, and realize that Coushatta is not the least bit Cajun in culture or accent (although ALL of Louisiana had adopted Cajun cousine!) ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1033 "2018-10-04T14:32:09Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > My wife reminded me that this was what Breaking Bad was like _all the time_. I couldn’t watch more than two episodes in a row because it was just _so intense_. I had to catch my breath for a few days after. My wife stopped watching “Breaking Bad” with me (the third time through for me) because of that unbearable intensity. She was so close, too: the next episode if she had continued was “Ozymandias”. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1034 "2018-10-04T14:50:25Z")
BCS is much too smart a show for the explosives to have accidentally detonated. Commercial construction explosives don’t accidentally detonate. Didn’t mean the scene wasn’t powerful and suspenseful and effective, of course. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1035 "2018-10-04T14:52:14Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > . … > That said, I wasn’t very worried about Werner there. Blowing him up would have been too cliche, and these guys are supposed to be experienced professionals, not a bunch of criminals trying to figure out how to work a bomb for the first time. Werner’s fear was a symbolic fear of Mike and Gus. Spoiler from the IMDB summary of next week’s plotline: - Lalo tracks a loose end in Gus’s operation; Mike is forced to make a difficult decision.\* Ach! Poor Werner. This confirms my fear that Werner will prove to be the catalyst to Mike’s “No half measures” policy. I sincerely hope they are going to surprise me again. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1036 "2018-10-04T14:52:27Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > That said, I wasn’t very worried about Werner there. Blowing him up would have been too cliche, and these guys are supposed to be experienced professionals, not a bunch of criminals trying to figure out how to work a bomb for the first time. Werner’s fear was a symbolic fear of Mike and Gus. Not just of Mike and Gus, but of death in his current circumstances. Down in the hole, where there was a slim chance of an accident, Werner had the opportunity to contemplate what it would mean if he were to die there. Alone, in a hole on the wrong side of the world; his death would not be noted, but rather covered up. How would his wife learn about it, and what would she learn? What kind of cover story would have to be concocted? Werner had to confront his isolation, not just geographically but also socially - he really is in a hole wired to blow right now, and the prospect of getting out of it is painfully distant. So he panics and runs back towards the light however he can. And when you’re in a hole wired to blow, panic is rarely going to get you where you want to be. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1037 "2018-10-04T14:58:40Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Not just of Mike and Gus, but of death in his current circumstances. Down in the hole, where there was a slim chance of an accident, Werner had the opportunity to contemplate what it would mean if he were to die there. Alone, in a hole on the wrong side of the world; his death would not be noted, but rather covered up. How would his wife learn about it, and what would she learn? What kind of cover story would have to be concocted? > > Werner had to confront his isolation, not just geographically but also socially - he really is in a hole wired to blow right now, and the prospect of getting out of it is painfully distant. So he panics and runs back towards the light however he can. And when you’re in a hole wired to blow, panic is rarely going to get you where you want to be. I agree with most of this. But I think his greatest fear is simply never seeing his wife again. If it were the more altruistic version that you describe, he would finish the job in order for her to be rich when he’s gone. I still don’t see how they waste him without embassy involvement though. Germany takes the well being of its citizens very seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1038 "2018-10-04T15:56:02Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I still don’t see how they waste him without embassy involvement though. Germany takes the well being of its citizens very seriously. What can the embassy do, though? At what point does his wife report him missing (which is the only way they would know he has disappeared.)? All that they presumably would know is that he took a flight to some city in the southwestern US and then vanished without a trace. Maybe he was just ditching his wife. Werner has obviously not thought this through, since Mike will know exactly where he is going. And depending on what visa strategy they used to get the crew in, he may have problems getting on an international flight. One has the impression that Werner’s expertise is in engineering alone, and he’s not going to be very capable of either evading the authorities or Mike. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1039 "2018-10-04T15:57:52Z")
I have to admit being unclear on Werner’s motivations as well as the means of his escape. I’m not sure how likely it would be that he would have his passport on him as well as enough American currency to do much of anything. Keeping the documents of the Germans as well as not giving them local money seems like a natural precaution for Mike to have taken. Then again, it occurs to me, Werner was buying drinks for those two schmoes in the bar so who the hell knows? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1040 "2018-10-04T16:00:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Mike dislikes her because she’s an untrustworthy slimebag. There doesn’t need to be more to it than that. > [@Breaking Bad](#): > > Mike: “You don’t know this woman like I do. I had a chance to deal with this before, and I gave her a pass. That’s what I get for being sexist. Now if you’ll excuse me…” > Jesse: “Mike, you can’t, just—Look, that’s our precursor. We need her.” > Mike: “Kid, if we have to ramp down for a while, so be it. It beats working with a lunatic who’s gonna get us arrested or killed.” > Jesse: “Look, she didn’t seem crazy to me, you know? She just seemed, like, uptight.” > Mike: “And now you’re being sexist. Trust me, this woman deserves to die as much as any man I’ve ever met.” I disagree with your assessment of Mike and Lydia’s past. He doesn’t just think she’s a slimebag, he deals with a lot of those. He says specifically that Jesse doesn’t know the woman like he does, that she’s a lunatic who’s going to get them arrested or killed, and that she deserves to die as much as any man he’s ever met. I think that it’s clear from the dialogue that there was something she did that hurt him or his interests deeply to prompt that strong and individual of a condemnation. I am quite confident, and was from her first appearance, that a major reason they included her in BCS is so that they can tell the story of why Mike has such venom for her. She’s going to do something that earns the ‘deserves to die’ judgement from Mike. That exchange is about as much background info as Nacho and Lalo got in BB, and look how much story they’ve hung from that. > [@salinqmind](#): > > Does Lydia even know about the project? I should think the fewer who are involved, the better. Lydia found the laundry for Gus, I’m not sure how she’d be able to scout out the location without knowing about the secret building project. She’s involved with his operation in some capacity now, and by the BB time frame is pretty significantly involved. I think it’s certain that she knows about the building project and likely that she knows it’s for a drug lab. > [@](#): > > As for you, Pantastic - Objection! Howard testifying at the hearing about how Chuck treated Jimmy is totally irrelevant, and hearsay. Please disregard… Why bring it up, for what purpose? Chuck’s name hasn’t come up at all, and since when does Howard give a flying fig about Jimmy getting reinstated? His very unlikely sharing with that bunch about Chuck’s supposed shabby treatment of Jimmy is out of nowhere, and should not affect their decision, IMO. Getting Howard’s testimony admitted would be a job for Jimmy and Kim, and might involve a con or a clever legal maneuver. It would be done to explain why Jimmy didn’t bring up Chuck’s name, and to cast a different light over the conflict. Getting Howard to care about Jimmy being reinstated would also be a job for one or both of the duo. Note that what I posted is not a “I think this is what’s likely to happen and here’s why”, it’s a “I could see this happening, and the writers would have to come up with the ride to get to that destination”. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1041 "2018-10-04T16:40:13Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I disagree with your assessment of Mike and Lydia’s past. He doesn’t just think she’s a slimebag, he deals with a lot of those. He says specifically that Jesse doesn’t know the woman like he does, that she’s a lunatic who’s going to get them arrested or killed, and that she deserves to die as much as any man he’s ever met. I think that it’s clear from the dialogue that there was something she did that hurt him or his interests deeply to prompt that strong and individual of a condemnation. Mike shows no particular animosity towards Lydia at the first meeting shown between them in BB (_Madrigal_), although he is exasperated by her panic after Gus’s death. In that meeting she implies that it would be a good idea to kill all 11 of Mike’s men. When Mike refuses, she enlists Chris Mara to kill Duane Chow and sends him to kill Mike. Mike doesn’t need any more reason to hate Lydia than that. He spares her only because she can get them more methylamine. Of course he hates and distrusts the woman who tried to have him whacked. We don’t need additional backstory. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792/1042 "2018-10-04T16:43:16Z")
Thing is that Gus would likely order the murders in any case. Werner has proven he has loose lips. He now knows the exact location of the facility. Gus will presume he has communicated to his wife or that there is at least a good chance of that. Lydia may be the one to expand the circle of those executed to assure the secret is kept but having Werner and wife killed? I could not imagine Gus not having that done without a second thought. Not ordering that immediately would be inconsistent with the character. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-call-saul-season-iv/818792.md?page=53)