# Better Conservatives? Where?! (A response to Coffeecat) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208 "2018-09-30T08:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/241 "2018-10-03T18:42:25Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Again - you don’t get to pick who joins your group in this system. Just because white supremacists and myself both believe in, say, conservative fiscal policy, doesn’t mean I hold the supremacists awful, intolerant views. What choice do I have? And just because we agree on some issues doesn’t mean we agree on all issues. It’s a false equivalency. > > In that whole situation with the Nazis in that protest - I agree, I don’t agree with judging people based on their skin color, heritage, etc. But I also don’t like that everyone on the right in that rally was considered a Nazi because some Nazi’s showed up and stood next to their group. Knowing how tight security is at Republican rallies(especially Trump rallies) I call bullshit on this. You can be kicked out for wearing the wrong teeshirt or for holding a sign that is even close to not being totally supportive, but you can’t say a fucking word against Nazis and other lowlifes from the podium, let alone block them from coming in or kick them out afterwards? ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/242 "2018-10-03T18:48:00Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Especially if the Republican president openly sides with them and calls them fine people and if Sebastian Gorka, one of Trump’s advisors wore a Nazi medal to a inaugural ball. [Nazi-linked group 'proud' that top Donald Trump aide wore its medal | The Independent | The Independent](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-sebastian-gorka-nazi-medal-claims-hungary-proud-anti-semitism-judaism-a7674161.html) > > Gee, I wonder why we think you’re white nationalists? Not all Repubs like Trump - they considered him the lesser of two evils. If you disagree I understand but if you are in the Saint Hilary camp then we are on two different planets and this will continue to happen where Dems pretend nothing is wrong and then get surprised at the polls. The only logic they can come up with is “half of America is Nazis?!?!?!” Which is so laughably untrue that they can’t reasonably prepare for the next situation. If you seriously think half of America is immoral and stupid you are insulting the base you need. > [@Modesty\_Blaise](#): > > I didn’t see any of those “good” people at those rallies try to distance themselves from said nazis. If nazis showed up and pretended to be with me, I’d move away. Not hard. Also not hard: saying nazis are bad. If they don’t at least do that, then I assume they, at the very least _don’t mind_ nazis. I agree - I wouldn’t stand next to Nazis either. But then again if you stand there in protest and continue to move away from elements you don’t like you would eventually be miles from the situation itself. Things were happening at that rally I don’t agree with. I hate nazis, the idea of hating someone because of their race, creed, etc is vile to me. But I won’t assault them either. Members of the right that day were having bottled, rocks, and all manner of objects thrown at them. Then a White supremacist did something vile and awful. And then suddenly the whole group that showed up in support of a statue, regardless of their affiliation with that attacker, were labelled alongside the attacker. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/243 "2018-10-03T18:50:51Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > … Repubs, the good ones, believe in all individuals pursuing their own interests will be best for society. Dems lean towards all individuals pursuing the interests of society… :smack: Oh yeah? Didn’t you forget to ask the Dems if they’ve stopped beating their wives? ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/244 "2018-10-03T18:51:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Knowing how tight security is at Republican rallies(especially Trump rallies) I call bullshit on this. You can be kicked out for wearing the wrong teeshirt or for holding a sign that is even close to not being totally supportive, but you can’t say a fucking word against Nazis and other lowlifes from the podium, let alone block them from coming in or kick them out afterwards? I agree in tightly controlled rallies like that. But in open protests and rallies I often see antifa types punching people, stealing hats, macing, throwing things at people they disagree with, unprovoked. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/245 "2018-10-03T18:53:28Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > :smack: Oh yeah? Didn’t you forget to ask the Dems if they’ve stopped beating their wives? And that’s why you won’t have any repubs in here talking politics. You assume the irrationally worst thing about the other side like they are demons. It’s pathetic. You think no democrats have ever beaten their wives? Keep pretending you are on the side of good and right and the other side is evil or you’ll continue to lose support. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/246 "2018-10-03T18:57:14Z")
It sure sounds like you’re saying that Republicans don’t post here because they lose arguments here. And it’s not that hard to pretend that the Republicans are the bad guys when some of them wear actual goddamn Nazi medals. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/247 "2018-10-03T18:58:39Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > I agree in tightly controlled rallies like that. But in open protests and rallies I often see antifa types punching people, stealing hats, macing, throwing things at people they disagree with, unprovoked. We’re talking about rallies, not your rare antifa(they’re the new boogyman when you want to do the “Look! Over there!!” diversion, I take it?) sighting. Also, you are NOT “agreeing” with me-nice try. :rolleyes: I was talking about rallies when anything suspected of not being totally party-loyal is banned from coming in, while the scum of the earth are welcomed with open arms as long as they cheer in the right places. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/248 "2018-10-03T19:02:46Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > But I won’t assault them either. Members of the right that day were having bottled, rocks, and all manner of objects thrown at them. Then a White supremacist did something vile and awful. And then suddenly the whole group that showed up in support of a statue, regardless of their affiliation with that attacker, were labelled alongside the attacker. The violence at that event was planned, precipitated, and executed by the white supremacists. They talked about violence beforehand, were violent during the event, and bragged about it afterwards. The two sides at Charlottesville were not remotely comparable. And anyone who marched alongisde Nazis can reasonably be said to be tolerant of Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/249 "2018-10-03T19:04:50Z")
Let’s just call them fascist adjacent. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/250 "2018-10-03T19:07:34Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > And that’s why you won’t have any repubs in here talking politics. You assume the irrationally worst thing about the other side like they are demons. It’s pathetic. You think no democrats have ever beaten their wives? > > Keep pretending you are on the side of good and right and the other side is evil or you’ll continue to lose support. Shove it, Trumpette. “Ooooh! Although we we do our best to act like total shitheels when we talk about them, they hurt our widdle feewings if they don’t kiss our ass in conversations with them!! WAAAA!!” I’ve seen your rallies and I’ve heard the dreck coming from the podium-play butthurt somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/251 "2018-10-03T19:08:20Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > It sure sounds like you’re saying that Republicans don’t post here because they lose arguments here. And it’s not that hard to pretend that the Republicans are the bad guys when some of them wear actual goddamn Nazi medals. I’m saying Republicans don’t post here because every single thing said will be examined in the worst possible light and since they aren’t the majority here the crowd will be against them and therefore even if they are right they would be deemed wrong. To phrase this question differently: What benefit would any republican have in posting here? They go off to their own echo chambers as you live in your own echo chamber. Though knowing the Straightdope mentality you folks assume only **other** people can make logical fallacies and you’d never be guilty of any yourself. The board in total is guilty of what any echo chamber would be - assuming the other side has no rational good points. Assuming that there is no middle ground. So why bother when you have already made up your mind? No well-made point would change you anyway. I’d rather lurk the non-politics threads where I can continue to interact with you treating you as humans and me as human because we are likely all good people. It’s unfortunate that it is that way but also true. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/252 "2018-10-03T19:11:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Shove it, Trumpette. “Ooooh! Although we we do our best to act like total shitheels when we talk about them, they hurt our widdle feewings if they don’t kiss our ass in conversations with them!! WAAAA!!” I’ve seen your rallies and I’ve heard the dreck coming from the podium-play butthurt somewhere else. Reach across the aisle and slash, that will convince them! Keep pretending Dems are the side of good and pureness and watch while they devour themselves as each reaches to be the mightiest virtue signaler. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/253 "2018-10-03T19:12:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yes, you definitely are, and it seems to be deliberate by the way you pretend that this has something to do with a court proceeding. You are trolling here. He’s just regurgitating MRA talking points. Oh wait. Yep! Trolling like a motherfuck. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/254 "2018-10-03T19:14:01Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > I often see antifa types punching people, stealing hats, macing, throwing things at people they disagree with, unprovoked. Where were you when I was laughing at our conservative posters who couldn’t produce more than a pathetic handful of petty violent acts by the scourge that is “antifa”. You see this stuff often? That’s great, maybe YOU can prove they’re more than random malcontents. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/255 "2018-10-03T19:17:35Z")
White supremacists have killed lots and lots of people, even in the last decade or two. Antifa has never killed anyone. Maybe antifa is screwed up, but they’re not even a tiny fraction of as screwed up, or as dangerous to the country, as white supremacists. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/256 "2018-10-03T19:17:59Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Where were you when I was laughing at our conservative posters who couldn’t produce more than a pathetic handful of petty violent acts by the scourge that is “antifa”. You see this stuff often? That’s great, maybe YOU can prove they’re more than random malcontents. I was away from the board for a while for posting though I did read most of it. I’m against reacting against anything short of the threat of immediate violence with violence. I think antifa is a fringe group - most Dems wouldn’t agree with them I hope. The same is true for White Nationalists and Repubs. I don’t personally know any Repubs that are racists and wouldn’t continue to associate with them if they did. I cannot control anyone’s actions but my own. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/257 "2018-10-03T19:19:20Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Reach across the aisle and slash, that will convince them! Keep pretending Dems are the side of good and pureness and watch while they devour themselves as each reaches to be the mightiest virtue signaler. You can’t even see the mud you are rolling around in at those rallies, can you? Tell me, Mr. Diplomat-where on this board(or anywhere else for that matter) are your admonitions to those on the other side for how they treat Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/258 "2018-10-03T19:21:08Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > I was away from the board for a while for posting though I did read most of it. > > I’m against reacting against anything short of the threat of immediate violence with violence. > > I think antifa is a fringe group - most Dems wouldn’t agree with them I hope. The same is true for White Nationalists and Repubs. I don’t personally know any Repubs that are racists and wouldn’t continue to associate with them if they did. I cannot control anyone’s actions but my own. That’s right-YOU are totally in control when you go to rallies filled with hate. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/259 "2018-10-03T19:22:56Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Not all Repubs like Trump - they considered him the lesser of two evils. If you disagree I understand but if you are in the Saint Hilary camp then we are on two different planets and this will continue to happen where Dems pretend nothing is wrong and then get surprised at the polls. You don’t have to be in the “Saint Hilary[sic] camp” to recognize that whatever deficiencies and actual scandals Hillary Clinton may have carried in her baggage, they are nothing compared to Trump, who has lied, scammed, bullied, threatened, and defrauded thousands of people from contractors to the students of his “Trump University”, notwithstanding his utter lack of or knowledge about governance and his supposed business prowess in running oceanfront casinos into the ground. The only way you can even make that kind of equivalency is by uncritically accepting every unsubstantiated, wild-ass conspiracy theory about the Clintons combined with willful blindness about Trump’s past and the incoherence of his policies, such as they are. The Democratic party has and continues to make numerous errors and is hamstrung by its own blind obedience to its traditional hierarchy, including running a candidate who was so legendarily unpopular she barely won the non-superdelegate votes in the primary against Vermont Larry David and was defeated in the Electoral College by a draft-dodging confidence artist and self-described serial pussy groper. But that doesn’t make the two parties equivalent in ethical vacuousness and moral turpitude. One party, at least, has not uniformly seconded itself to an organization dedicated to blocking every measure to address firearm-related violence funded in part by an unfriendly foreign adversary, or set itself to the stated task of blocking every initiative to the point of repeatedly shutting down the government like a three year old having a tantrum. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/260 "2018-10-03T19:24:21Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > I don’t personally know any Repubs that are racists and wouldn’t continue to associate with them if they did. In my experience most racists either don’t know they’re racist or keep it secret. Chances are, you know a lot of racists that just haven’t let that part of themselves show. And, of course, there are lots of racists in both parties. It’s just that one of those parties has a leader right now that has unapologetically said many racist things, praised racists, and much more, without any significant sanction from others in his party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=14)