# Better Conservatives? Where?! (A response to Coffeecat) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208 "2018-09-30T08:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/301 "2018-10-03T22:50:37Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > [Yes](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/3/17932324/brett-kavanaugh-news-republicans-poll-sexual-assault). That’s not the same question. Your poll asks about accusation; the other asks about admitted guilt. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/302 "2018-10-03T22:51:45Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Also, I’m curious how much money \*\*Quartz \*\*has spent on erectile dysfunction pills from pop-up ads. None. I’m a virgin, remember? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/303 "2018-10-03T22:58:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The jury convicts. > > But even though the jury has delivered a verdict of not guilty, the conviction must be overturned, because the evidence was not legally sufficient. I think you meant “even though the jury has delivered a verdict of guilty”. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > White supremacists have killed lots and lots of people, even in the last decade or two. Antifa has never killed anyone. Maybe antifa is screwed up, but they’re not even a tiny fraction of as screwed up, or as dangerous to the country, as white supremacists. And Antifa doesn’t have a white supremacist as President of the United States of America. The white supremacists do. > [@AnthonyElite](#): > > I mean…obviously the Repub side believes a lot of the things proposed against Hillary. I know it may seem bizarre but this country isn’t immune to terrible scandal. > > I’m not personally a fan of Trump though I think some of his actions have had merit. I do slightly lean towards him being a better President than Hillary would have been but we will never know. The Democrats could have picked a LOT of people to elect and I would have voted Democrat. And now you have shown how much of a moron you are. What scandals tarnished Ms. Clinton? Everything I’ve seen tossed out against her has been a flat-out lie. And what actions of Trump have had merit? > [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Huh - I wonder what the rational on that is? It’s hard to articulate why I think this but I think sexual assault just seems like the kind of crime to me where there likely not repentant or redeemable. > > I also wonder how good the sampling was on that. It’s called _rationale_. But, hey, we already know you’re not rational, so, of course, you’re going to wonder about the rational. Anyway, are you new to the Internet? [Here](http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/NPR_PBS-NewsHour_Marist-Poll_USA-NOS-and-Tables_1809251359.pdf) is a PDF with that very information. It took me seconds to find it. > [@vivalostwages](#): > > People on my brother’s branch of the fam, especially his daughters, are vocal about their support of Trump. Rational? Nope, especially since the older one agrees with Franklin Graham that Trump is keeping us safe from nuke wars with North Korea, would never force her to vaccinate her kids, is a great businessman, and not nearly as much of a womanizer as Hillary is (yes, the niece actually posted this). She also believes that Paul Ryan is correct in saying that prayer is the answer to mass shooting. > > At least some of the rest of the fam is more sensible. Are they aware that Trump is the one that brought us to the brink of said nuclear war? > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Of what, exactly? Serious question. Of being Hillary Clinton. That’s all they have against her. > [@SteveG1](#): > > Let’s get one thing out of the way. This Kavanaugh “thing” was not a trial. it was a review, a JOB INTERVIEW. The trial (for perjury) may come later - maybe. > > He hasn’t been formally hit with criminal charges (yet). So, let’s drop the bullshit about “presumption of innocence”. It’s a job interview - which he BLEW. > > How many job interviews are there, where you can chose to not answer questions, lie repeatedly, cry, yell, and make threats? > > He blew it. I wouldn’t hire him to scrub my toilet. > > I think he’s a lying, perjuring, raping, piece of shit. If this is how he acts sober, well HOLY SHIT I don’t want to see him drunk. On top of that, it’s a political position (as is anything which requires a group of politicians to decide). High office usually carries the “avoid the appearance of impropriety” warning label. Yeah, Kavanaugh, like his proposer, missed the boat on that by a country mile. Oh, have you seen those videos where a defendant makes a snide comment to the judge and then the judge doesn’t let them get away with it? I’d dearly love to see how Kavanaugh treated a defendant who yelled at him. FWIW: This time, unlike two years ago, I’m able to send in my absentee ballot. For the first time in my life, I’ve voted straight party line: Democrat. I’m a voter in Georgia though, so the only thing my vote will accomplish is to increase the opposition count by one; the horror that the Republican party is now will still win, most likely, in that state. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/304 "2018-10-03T23:07:38Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Oh poor fucking snowflakes. > > This is the BBQ PIT. > > I though you assholes liked “non-PC” tellin’ it like it is straight shooters. > > I guess that was bullshit too. > > Go back to Brietbart and Stormfront. > > Pussy. Hah - I suppose you think the only ideas that you don’t hold are vile and nasty. It’s a very narrow view. I do indeed prefer straight shooting. But just because the mob has majority doesn’t mean it is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/305 "2018-10-03T23:14:04Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Hah - I suppose you think the only ideas that you don’t hold are vile and nasty. It’s a very narrow view. > > I do indeed prefer straight shooting. But just because the mob has majority doesn’t mean it is correct. I’ll be billing you the cost of a new irony meter. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/306 "2018-10-03T23:17:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It does not. > > Imagine that our pal Zachary is on trial for felonious escape from custody, after he knocked down an officer and ran from the police after they came to question him about Yvette’s accusations. > > The elements of “felonious escape from custody,” in our hypothetical jurisdiction are: (1) that the accused was in the custody of the police officer, > (2) that the accused was charged with a criminal offense before he was taken into custody, and > (3) that the accused escaped from such custody by force or violence. > > The officer who was knocked down testifies that he arrived at Zachary’s house, identified himself, and questioned Zachary about the events involving Yvette. When Zachary admitted to having sex with Yvette, the officer testified, he told Zachary that he was under arrest. At that point, Zachary pushed him down and ran away. > > Zachary does not testify. > > The jury convicts. > > But even though the jury has delivered a verdict of not guilty, the conviction must be overturned, because the evidence was not legally sufficient. Element (2) that the prosecution needed to prove was never placed before the jury: the prosecution did not offer any evidence that Zachary was charged with a criminal offense. “Charged with a criminal offense,” means a formal charge, not merely the exercise of probable cause to arrest. > > So the jury either did not notice, or did not care, because they thought Zachary was a creep. They heard what sounded like it should be “escape from custody,” and voted guilty – but on appeal, the appellate court should recognize that the prosecution didn’t prove the “charged with a criminal offense,” element, and the verdict must be reversed and the charges dismissed. The prosecution can’t even try him again. Thanks for the explanation. So, in your hypothetical, the appellate court decides that the evidence was not legally sufficient? Could the judge in the original trial decide that after the jury gives it’s verdict? ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/307 "2018-10-03T23:26:49Z")
> [@](#): > > And Antifa doesn’t have a white supremacist as President of the United States of America. The white supremacists do. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: > [@](#): > > And now you have shown how much of a moron you are. What scandals tarnished Ms. Clinton? Everything I’ve seen tossed out against her has been a flat-out lie. And what actions of Trump have had merit? The whole point of this thread is how useless it is to debate such topics here. I’m not wasting my time. > [@](#): > > It’s called _rationale_. But, hey, we already know you’re not rational, so, of course, you’re going to wonder about the rational. You caught me - we all know spelling and grammar mistakes automatically invalidate an argument. > [@](#): > > Anyway, are you new to the Internet? [Here](http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/NPR_PBS-NewsHour_Marist-Poll_USA-NOS-and-Tables_1809251359.pdf) is a PDF with that very information. It took me seconds to find it. Yeah it’s the pit and I already established it wasn’t worth arguing here. That’s what the thread is about. Did you forget? > [@](#): > > FWIW: This time, unlike two years ago, I’m able to send in my absentee ballot. For the first time in my life, I’ve voted straight party line: Democrat. I’m a voter in Georgia though, so the only thing my vote will accomplish is to increase the opposition count by one; the horror that the Republican party is now will still win, most likely, in that state. Georgia - one of the freest states left in the country. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/308 "2018-10-03T23:28:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’ll be billing you the cost of a new irony meter. Because Trump got elected, right? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/309 "2018-10-03T23:31:29Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > The whole point of this thread is how useless it is to debate such topics here. I’m not wasting my time. Dude, just so you know, this is the expected response from someone who has no argument to put forward. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/310 "2018-10-03T23:49:40Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Dude, just so you know, this is the expected response from someone who has no argument to put forward. Read the title of the thread again - it’s been a year and a half since Trump took office. What could I possibly say on this board that hasn’t been said? On an entirely separate note I really don’t like when we have related parties in the White House. I didn’t like Bush/Bush and I didn’t like the idea of Clinton/Clinton. We are a nation of millions. We can find candidates that are a fresher take. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/311 "2018-10-03T23:56:01Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > Read the title of the thread again - it’s been a year and a half since Trump took office. What could I possibly say on this board that hasn’t been said? > > On an entirely separate note I really don’t like when we have related parties in the White House. I didn’t like Bush/Bush and I didn’t like the idea of Clinton/Clinton. We are a nation of millions. We can find candidates that are a fresher take. I did read the title. It says “Better Conservatives? Where?”. Have you named any better conservatives? I named Larry Hogan. Who do you have? ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/312 "2018-10-04T00:00:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I did read the title. It says “Better Conservatives? Where?”. Have you named any better conservatives? I named Larry Hogan. Who do you have? My answer is that Democrats aren’t conceding anymore. They are pretending there is only one side to the argument which is quite simple. As a child you marvel in the glory of being small. Aging a bit you realize you’d enjoy being larger. As an adult you realize the value of the middle. I think the left has gone too far left. And no system has killed more people than the left gone too far. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/313 "2018-10-04T00:09:01Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > My answer is that Democrats aren’t conceding anymore. They are pretending there is only one side to the argument which is quite simple. > > As a child you marvel in the glory of being small. Aging a bit you realize you’d enjoy being larger. As an adult you realize the value of the middle. > > I think the left has gone too far left. And no system has killed more people than the left gone too far. Soooooooooooo, no better Conservatives you can name? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/314 "2018-10-04T00:09:08Z")
I heard a story about a guy who was complaining that he could not find a woman willing to go out with him. Every time he approached a girl and started talking to her things might start out well, but always they would decline to go out with him. Every single time. This guy than complained bitterly about women in general and how they were all terrible and why weren’t there any good or nice women. A friend answered him. “Maybe it’s not the women.” Similarly, Democrats go on about Trump, and how terrible he is, what a horrible liar he is, how odious he is, and what scummy con man he is etc etc. (and let us be clear, he is all these things and more, and pretty much everybody, including those who voted for him are perfectly aware of this.) Now, like the young man seeking women in the above example, a Democrat could complain about how terrible Republicans must be to vote for Trump, etc etc. But I truly think a better question might be something like “Trump being what he is, and it being obvious what he is, why are people aligned with him and against us. What is it that they see in us that they find being on Trump’s side preferable? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/315 "2018-10-04T00:12:53Z")
[quote=“AnthonyElite, post:307, topic:822208”] … The whole point of this thread is how useless it is to debate such topics here. I’m not wasting my time. …/QUOTE] “I’m not wasting my time explaining why Hillary Clinton was the ‘greater of two evils’ because that would require thoughts and declarative statements, which I am not prepared to provide.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/316 "2018-10-04T00:15:49Z")
> [@AnthonyElite](#): > > I think the left has gone too far left. And no system has killed more people than the left gone too far. Now this gets me curious. By “the left”, I gather you include current Democrats and say they’ve gone too far, threatening to slide into… atrocities, I guess. But the United States overall is a very right-wing country, so if Americans leftists have gone too far, how far do you think Canadians have gone? France? Sweden? Are these places teetering on the edge of something? If they are not, is it because the people in them are radically different from Americans? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/317 "2018-10-04T00:19:29Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > But I truly think a better question might be something like “Trump being what he is, and it being obvious what he is, why are people aligned with him and against us. What is it that they see in us that they find being on Trump’s side preferable? That we are not much into authoritarianism, [https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-2016-authoritarian-213533](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-2016-authoritarian-213533) I know, it is too bad… /s Not many (including many independents and the unicorn like moderate conservatives) see that as preferable I know, but there are enough of those for demagogues to gain power thanks to chicanery, pandering, gerrymandering and electoral colleges. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/318 "2018-10-04T00:21:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Now this gets me curious. By “the left”, I gather you include current Democrats and say they’ve gone too far, threatening to slide into… atrocities, I guess. But the United States overall is a very right-wing country, so if Americans leftists have gone too far, how far do you think Canadians have gone? France? Sweden? Are these places teetering on the edge of something? If they are not, is it because the people in them are radically different from Americans? To clarify - the left has gone too far for my personal taste. I don’t think we are anywhere near ruin. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/319 "2018-10-04T00:22:13Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I think you meant “even though the jury has delivered a verdict of guilty”. Yes. That’s what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![AnthonyElite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@AnthonyElite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnthonyElite)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/320 "2018-10-04T00:22:42Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I heard a story about a guy who was complaining that he could not find a woman willing to go out with him. Every time he approached a girl and started talking to her things might start out well, but always they would decline to go out with him. Every single time. This guy than complained bitterly about women in general and how they were all terrible and why weren’t there any good or nice women. > > A friend answered him. “Maybe it’s not the women.” > > Similarly, Democrats go on about Trump, and how terrible he is, what a horrible liar he is, how odious he is, and what scummy con man he is etc etc. (and let us be clear, he is all these things and more, and pretty much everybody, including those who voted for him are perfectly aware of this.) > > Now, like the young man seeking women in the above example, a Democrat could complain about how terrible Republicans must be to vote for Trump, etc etc. > > But I truly think a better question might be something like “Trump being what he is, and it being obvious what he is, why are people aligned with him and against us. What is it that they see in us that they find being on Trump’s side preferable? That was beautiful! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=17)