# Better Conservatives? Where?! (A response to Coffeecat) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208 "2018-09-30T08:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/681 "2018-10-11T13:09:37Z")
The latter two words have a rather narrow context for interpretation coming from me. I’m not a fan of either. There is however, a wide spectrum of sluts😛 ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/682 "2018-10-11T13:16:41Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > The latter two words have a rather narrow context for interpretation coming from me. I’m not a fan of either. > > There is however, a wide spectrum of sluts😛 Yeah, you’re a sexist piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/683 "2018-10-11T13:19:26Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > The latter two words have a rather narrow context for interpretation coming from me. I’m not a fan of either. > > There is however, a wide spectrum of sluts😛 So we’ve drilled down to the bottom of our disagreement. I’d just say imagine how you’d feel if someone used n\*\*\*\*\* to describe an outspoken black person who said something they disagreed with politically, and I think you’ll understand how I feel about your description of Sandra Fluke. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/684 "2018-10-11T13:25:38Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > The latter two words have a rather narrow context for interpretation coming from me. I’m not a fan of either. > > There is however, a wide spectrum of sluts😛 Right, which is why you took it so lightly when the word was applied to your daughters. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/685 "2018-10-11T13:28:57Z")
Nope. I’d still go with context. I believe that exact same thing is happening to Kanye West, from other black people. Black people use the word with each other casually. If they keep doing so, it will spill over into general usage, and become common, like what has happened with Queer (though that was never a nuclear bomb) Language and context are in constant flux. Insisting on installing your meaning or only a single context is a mistake if communication is your goal. To be fair “Brazen Slut” was the wrong word choice and your interpretation was fair and probably the preferred one based on my context and tone. Had I been otherwise toned down more, said “Brazen Hussy” we would probably not be having this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/686 "2018-10-11T13:48:08Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Nope. I’d still go with context. > > I believe that exact same thing is happening to Kanye West, from other black people. > > Black people use the word with each other casually. If they keep doing so, it will spill over into general usage, and become common, like what has happened with Queer (though that was never a nuclear bomb) > > Language and context are in constant flux. Insisting on installing your meaning or only a single context is a mistake if communication is your goal. > > To be fair “Brazen Slut” was the wrong word choice and your interpretation was fair and probably the preferred one based on my context and tone. Had I been otherwise toned down more, said “Brazen Hussy” we would probably not be having this discussion. Okay. As this discussion winds down, I’ll suggest kindly that perhaps you’ve internalized, to some degree, some of the patriarchal and misogynistic attitudes of broader society. Which isn’t anything to be ashamed of necessarily, IMO, as long as one recognizes this possibility and tries to improve one’s self. Most people are strongly influenced by the attitudes of the society and culture in which they reside. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/687 "2018-10-11T14:13:31Z")
I lost track of this thread and just clicked to read the last few posts to see where we were. :smack: :eek: I’ve never heard of Ms. Fluke and don’t care enough to click, but … > [@Scylla](#): > > … “Brazen slut” describes just the amount of actual disapproval to show that I am not on her side, but the archaism shows that it is not a full strength use of “slut,” and in fact is referential that we are talking about a sexual thing… > > Language is a wonderful and beautiful thing. I am known on this board for being slightly internet famous for my humorous anecdotes. I was being humorous and witty and making an argument simultaneously. > > I thought it was ironic and clever and smart… I am also a fan of clever use of language. But the primary function of language is _ **communication** _. I doubt that the particular connotations of “brazen slut” you hint at will be generally understood. > [@Scylla](#): > > Y’all might not be aware of it, but to Republicans, conservatives and the apolitical, talking to the left is like visiting the planet of humorless literalism. Is this more “clever” hyperbole? If you’re **Scylla** I think I’d rather read posts by **Charybdis**. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/688 "2018-10-11T14:24:37Z")
That is certainly true. I might suggest that if you are roughed up enough over some random asshole on the internet saying “slut” six years ago, than it is possible that you may be overly focused on this issue. If one is very interested and concerned about an issue, one tends to see and interpret everything in terms of that issue. For me, I address my advantage in life by making sure that I am directly involved both financially and by commitment of time in two worthy causes at a given time. I have worked with, volunteered and served on the board of an organization that helped extract women from physically abusive relationships (this organization sadly went under.). I still volunteer providing financial resources to divorcees who are suffering under the burden of having to handle issues that their husbands may not have allowed them to. That’s two that i’ve done, directly benefitting disadvantaged women. I have no idea, what you do in real life, but my personal attitude is somewhat disparaging of PC culture, or of correcting speech as a mechanism for social change, which I sometimes see as empty “virtue signaling.” To be clear, I don’t think this is what you are doing, and the quality of your debate dismisses this possibility. You are rare, though. You have indeed given me food for thought, and if I was to distill down everything you said into a nugget, it would be simply that good manners are good manners. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/689 "2018-10-11T14:32:55Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > That is certainly true. I might suggest that if you are roughed up enough over some random asshole on the internet saying “slut” six years ago, than it is possible that you may be overly focused on this issue. > > If one is very interested and concerned about an issue, one tends to see and interpret everything in terms of that issue. > > For me, I address my advantage in life by making sure that I am directly involved both financially and by commitment of time in two worthy causes at a given time. > > I have worked with, volunteered and served on the board of an organization that helped extract women from physically abusive relationships (this organization sadly went under.). I still volunteer providing financial resources to divorcees who are suffering under the burden of having to handle issues that their husbands may not have allowed them to. > > That’s two that i’ve done, directly benefitting disadvantaged women. > > I have no idea, what you do in real life, but my personal attitude is somewhat disparaging of PC culture, or of correcting speech as a mechanism for social change, which I sometimes see as empty “virtue signaling.” > > To be clear, I don’t think this is what you are doing, and the quality of your debate dismisses this possibility. You are rare, though. > > You have indeed given me food for thought, and if I was to distill down everything you said into a nugget, it would be simply that good manners are good manners. Thanks for engaging. For what it’s worth, I’ll say that many, maybe even most, good and decent people also have some bigotries and biases that they’re unaware of, and I wouldn’t exempt myself (I’ll just say that I’m trying to find these flaws within myself in order to correct them). And actions, of course, like volunteering for worthy causes, are more important than flippant words on an internet message board. But it can still be a good thing to talk about the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/690 "2018-10-11T14:37:41Z")
Yes, and your example in this regard and your courtesy and condidersation, is to me the strongest indicator of both the strength and merit of your convictions. They are worthy of emulation. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/691 "2018-10-11T14:47:33Z")
Thank you for the kind words, and I appreciate your courtesy and consideration as well. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/692 "2018-10-11T14:53:20Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Women today are formidable. In the war of ideas, and in the forum of message board, I have no gender based advantage over her. You either have not been reading the threads where women talk about their experience here on the Dope, or you haven’t been listening. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/693 "2018-10-11T15:22:42Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Yeah, you’re a sexist piece of shit. Six years from now, **iandyiii** is going to show up and make you pay for that. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/694 "2018-10-11T16:21:04Z")
> [@Modesty\_Blaise](#): > > Conservatives don’t do comedy cuz liberals will be mean to them?:rolleyes::rolleyes: > > That’s **some wild snowflakery** right there. Heh heh. Only they are allowed to be mean spirited spiteful lying selfish assholes. It’s in the rule book (which they made up). ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/695 "2018-10-11T17:01:41Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Six years from now, **iandyiii** is going to show up and make you pay for that. Not only are you trash, you delight in being trash. You take joy in repeating ‘sluts’ because it gives you power in a life that probably doesn’t have much. Fear, rage and self-loathing are at the heart of conservatism; fear that you don’t matter, rage at the fact that people that don’t look like you want their seat at the table and self-loathing because deep down you know you’re weak. Meanwhile humanity is just waiting for people like you to get out of the way.e ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/696 "2018-10-11T17:17:33Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Not only are you trash, you delight in being trash. You take joy in repeating ‘sluts’ because it gives you power in a life that probably doesn’t have much. Fear, rage and self-loathing are at the heart of conservatism; fear that you don’t matter, rage at the fact that people that don’t look like you want their seat at the table and self-loathing because deep down you know you’re weak. Meanwhile humanity is just waiting for people like you to get out of the way.e SLUTS!!! Great big Sweaty piles of Sluts! Sluts coated in cream cheese icing. Sluts!!! Mwahahaha! Feel my power grow, and bow down before me. The more I say it the stronger I get!!! ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/697 "2018-10-11T17:39:50Z")
**iandyii** So here’s a question, earlier in the thread Simone suggested that I was a victim of the shouting majority or some such. I believe I objected to that comparison because I thought it referenced you, and I thought we were having an interesting discussion. I note (I’m not suggesting you do anything, or I need the help,). That your defensive instincts seem selective, at least in this thread. I think there is a lot of what you might characterize as idiocy or hatred directed at me, in this thread. Is it that I deserve it (maybe I do)? Is it that you think I’m doing fine and no defense necessary? Is it that I am part of a privileged oppressive class and deserve a taste of my own medicine? Is it that i’m A man? I think some of the attacks here have been dehumanizing by your standard, but it doesn’t look like you’ve chosen to address them. It’s hard to take criticism seriously when it seems to be applied so selectively. So far I have collected “bigot, worse than bigot, mysoginist, coward, trash” So, if you are looking to call out bad behavior, you don’t need to go back 6 years. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/698 "2018-10-11T17:59:41Z")
Or is it that he’s having a conversation with you and trying hard to ignore the noise? (I’m picturing Hoover asking Boon to tell those assholes to shut up. “Hey, shut up, you assholes!”) Does it take away from **twoeyesandyfoureyes** ’ points if he does not play Whack-a-Mole with people being less kind than he? Because this is in the Pit, and I think the noise is to be expected. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/699 "2018-10-11T18:07:46Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Or is it that he’s having a conversation with you and trying hard to ignore the noise? > > (I’m picturing Hoover asking Boon to tell those assholes to shut up. “Hey, shut up, you assholes!”) > > Does it take away from **twoeyesandyfoureyes** ’ points if he does not play Whack-a-Mole with people being less kind than he? Because this is in the Pit, and I think the noise is to be expected. That could be it. At the same time I did discourage a much milder mischaracterization directed directed at him, it wasn’t difficult. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/700 "2018-10-11T18:09:26Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > SLUTS!!! Great big Sweaty piles of Sluts! Sluts coated in cream cheese icing. Sluts!!! Is that like a duck call? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=36)