# Better Conservatives? Where?! (A response to Coffeecat) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208 "2018-09-30T08:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/721 "2018-10-12T05:41:57Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Well, I’m undergoing psychoanalysis here, in an attempt to identify and uncover my hidden, non specific biases against women. After I receive extensive re-education at a left wing gulag (they have gulags in Berkely?). It is hoped that I might qualify as a good conservative. Gigobuster says I am the best they’ve got so, I guess it’s all riding on me. [snip] Well, upon further review… I have to mention that my previous posts pointing at your points that were not really accurate were just deftly avoided. (Items that should had made a more reasonable person to pause and reflect on what needs to be changed) ; so I could say now that I have indeed seen better conservatives in the SDMB too. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/722 "2018-10-12T06:47:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What?!? And here I was thinking we were e-buds.☹ There is not a single person on this forum whose life would not improve if you stopped logging in tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/723 "2018-10-12T07:08:44Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > There is not a single person on this forum whose life would not improve if you stopped logging in tomorrow. That’s an ugly thing to say! And untrue. It can’t be healthy to only hear echoes! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/724 "2018-10-12T07:14:03Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m not informed enough on immigration to have a rational opinion. > > Separating parents from kids sounds like a terrible idea. I’ve heard child trafficking being thrown out as a need for verification that they really are their kids, and the reason why there is separation. I have no idea if this is total bullshit or a valid reason. Is anybody really in favor of separating parents from kids? To the extent that it is happening, is it an unfortunate necessity that happens occasionally as part of a process to protect the kids, an example of heartless naziism or what? I don’t know enough. > > The Dream Act as written and described by Wikipedia seems cool. I like that it seems rigidly defined, and requires specific criteria be met that demonstrate value to this country for children that were brought here as minors and so have no responsibility for the illegal nature of their status. If anything it seems slightly more punitive than necessary, making the kids jump through more hoops than necessary. As it stands it seems right for kids 16-18, I’d say it needs less restrictive for kids 12-16, and anybody brought here earlier than that without a conviction should be made a citizen. > > I’m not sure how you play out chain immigration on this. I’m not as sympathetic to adults who come here illegally as they take the place of and disincent those who follow the rules. > > As for the attitude you espouse, I agree with it with the proviso that you never say “never.” I can imagine scenarios where a country’s problems could result from immigration. I beleive France is having some of these now. > > Again, this is not an area that I have studied or thought about deeply so no jumping up my ass. I’m prettig sure your views on immigration are somewhere left of mainstream Democrats. Are you sure you are a republican/conservative? Why are you playing one on a messageboard? Do you identify with the misogyny? ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/725 "2018-10-12T10:53:17Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > If you lean Republican, conservative even a little bit, you experience a constant stream of hostility directed at you and your beliefs. Deal with it, snowflake. When your position is built on a foundation that is untrue, irrational, or immoral, why are you even surprised? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/726 "2018-10-12T10:55:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s an ugly thing to say! I’m trying to be a little careful in my statements (“Everyone hates you, nobody would miss you if you left” sounds a little bit too much like suicide fuel for me to be comfortable posting it), but god damn, is there _anyone_ here who would care if they never had to read another **octopus** post? I’m sure in real life you have tons of people who care about you, but here, is there anyone here who has seen a good side of you? It’s like that for basically every conservative here. - **Scumpup** and **doorhinge** are basically just obnoxious trolls - **Bricker** took the Trump Train completely off the deep end and has since made it clear that he’s mostly just interested in gloating about how well the republicans are ending democracy - **Shodan** typically offers the dumbest post in any given thread, and we can be thankful for his service as the resident douchebag - **WillFarnaby** is one gay frog rant away from being institutionalized - **HurricaneDitka** is probably the one I can say some of the nicest things about, in that he’s merely obnoxious instead of outright noxious - **UltraVires** is like Shodan except a little smarter, if only barely; a noxious, misogynistic douchebag whose every post in the Kavanaugh thread made me think that anyone hiring a lawyer in WV would be better off not taking that risk and hiring a lawyer from another state instead - **Urbanredneck** is just unapologetically dumb as shit and apparently incapable of reflection or self-correction when shown to be totally wrong (as he usually is) - **Scylla** ’s got some downright lovely views about women and what it’s reasonable to call them when you disagree with them - **Bone** is easily the best of the lot and he’s still a dangerously paranoid single-issue second-amendment voter, which, as far as labels go, belongs up there with “single-issue false rape accusation voter”. But I have had some positive interactions with him and while I think his positions are wrong I can at least respect that some thought went into it. And compared to other forums, I gotta say, you guys are great. No, really! I spent a while at ChristianForums before deciding that it just wasn’t for me. The conservatives there are worse. Dishonest, intellectually stunted, incapable of more than one-line responses, at times probably just straight-up bots, openly racist, openly misogynistic, and more. Discussions were constantly derailed by bullshit whataboutisms, insane conspiracy theories, or ridiculous lies, and talking about something based on a source that wasn’t Fox News or further to the right was basically impossible. So congrats on not being completely fucking awful. Just mostly awful. And you are mostly awful. I’d be shocked if there was a poster here who would miss you if you left. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/727 "2018-10-12T11:28:19Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > There is not a single person on this forum whose life would not improve if you stopped logging in tomorrow. Where I live, plenty of pet owners let their dogs run around off-leash. That means there are dog turds in the parks, in the street, and on the sidewalk. I have never gotten dog shit on my shoes in this city because I avoid dog shit. I suggest you do the same. Hint: the board has an ignore function. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/728 "2018-10-12T11:43:20Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > No, it means you’re capable of reading and interpreting the news. Republicans don’t want to admit to their massive voter suppression campaigns, but they’re really, really obvious and well documented. Anyone who identifies as a Republican today is explicitly endorsing a party that is opposed to democratic ideals like ‘citizens should be allowed to vote for leaders’. On the one side we have people that just love them some voter fraud. On the other side baby killers, who hate due process and men and think an accusation is all that is needed to ruin someone’s life. Which side shall I vote for? You see how the game you are playing is played by the people you are arguing against, and then you see that you are doing the same thing ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/729 "2018-10-12T12:18:04Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > “Echo chamber”? No, I got this view by listening to people like _you_. And I’ve gone to boards with a larger republican presence. You know what the main difference is? Any rational discussion becomes virtually impossible, buried beneath impenetrable layers of _bullshit_. Conservatives don’t come off better - au contraire, they see considerably less checks on their _bullshit_, and so have no problem being _even worse than usual_. At least here we ban the fucking racists. > > But I have virtually nothing positive to say about almost any conservative here. You included. If there is such a thing as a “good conservative”, well, good job hiding them so well. Yes. Good. Keep that thought. Now think about yourself. Think about your worst moments as they would be seen and described by your enemies. View the worst of those on your side (and the best) under that same lens with that same contempt and judgement. This is the really really hard part, but keep working at and force yourself until you get there. You almost have to force yourself to convert to do this. Once you do that and really see it, than you have acquired a true critical eye. You see we all have a rose colored lens over one eye through which we see ourselves, our friends, our allies, and a sooty dark distorted lens through which we see our enemies an those we disagree with. Everybody (no exceptions) has this. It is known heuristic. There is no doubt on this count. None at all. It’s why scientific Tests need to be done blind and double blind. Even the slightest hint of preference will create confirmation bias. There are no clear lenses, unfortunately (or at least, I haven’t found them.) So you need to switch lenses. Go back and try again. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/730 "2018-10-12T13:17:07Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Yes. Good. Keep that thought. Now think about yourself. Think about your worst moments as they would be seen and described by your enemies. View the worst of those on your side (and the best) under that same lens with that same contempt and judgement. We do, and we don’t vote them into office. There are many on the left with awful or useless views and ideas. We either ignore them, or if they get too loud about it tell them to damp it down while the grown ups speak. Some college student on a blog somewhere is not equivalent to the guy you elected president. There is no equivalency. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/731 "2018-10-12T13:30:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > We do, and we don’t vote them into office. There are many on the left with awful or useless views and ideas. We either ignore them, or if they get too loud about it tell them to damp it down while the grown ups speak. > > Some college student on a blog somewhere is not equivalent to the guy you elected president. > > There is no equivalency. I voted against Trump. While, I prefer gridlock, my mind has been changing in recent months specifically because the awful and useless views are gaining prominency. Be ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/732 "2018-10-12T13:32:26Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Yes. Good. Keep that thought. Now think about yourself. Think about your worst moments as they would be seen and described by your enemies. View the worst of those on your side (and the best) under that same lens with that same contempt and judgement. I’m trying to remember the last time I called someone a slur then defended myself by arguing that if I didn’t, I wouldn’t be treating them with respect, and I’m coming up blank. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/733 "2018-10-12T13:43:26Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I voted against Trump. As did most of American voters. Still, he is president, and is therefore slightly more relevant than a college kid with a blog. When you attack the kid with the blog as a form of whataboutism, you are defending and normalizing the actions of the president. You may not have voted for him, but you are one of his supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/734 "2018-10-12T13:51:27Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > When you attack the kid with the blog as a form of whataboutism, you are defending and normalizing the actions of the president. > > You may not have voted for him, but you are one of his supporters. What kid with a blog? How was voting against Trump supporting him? What the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/735 "2018-10-12T13:55:47Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’m trying to remember the last time I called someone a slur then defended myself by arguing that if I didn’t, I wouldn’t be treating them with respect, and I’m coming up blank. Oh well. I did try to engage with you. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/736 "2018-10-12T14:12:45Z")
Iandyiii “What I saw was a minstrel show today.” – CNN’s Don Lemon “Kanye West is what happens when Negroes don’t read.” – CNN’s Bakari Sellers. “He’s the token Negro of the Trump administration.” – CNN’s Tara Setmayer. How is it OK to put Kanye on display like this?" – CNN’s Chris Cuomo. What are your thoughts on this language? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/737 "2018-10-12T14:17:54Z")
Oh man you got him now. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/738 "2018-10-12T14:31:22Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Iandyiii > > “What I saw was a minstrel show today.” – CNN’s Don Lemon > > “Kanye West is what happens when Negroes don’t read.” – CNN’s Bakari Sellers. > > “He’s the token Negro of the Trump administration.” – CNN’s Tara Setmayer. > > How is it OK to put Kanye on display like this?" – CNN’s Chris Cuomo. > What are your thoughts on this language? For the first three, I’m not comfortable judging or critiquing black people on what language is appropriate or not when they discuss black people they disagree with. No opinion on the last one. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/739 "2018-10-12T15:04:32Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > How was voting against Trump supporting him? I have seen many conservatives using that fig leaf. What took place is that while some independent thoughts appeared at the voting booth, I can not help but notice that the continuing efforts to normalize Trump, and thanks to right wing media propaganda, are very successful in making ignorance triumph among many conservatives; even in the SDMB. IMHO the current gross three monkey act seen in the Republican Congress is maintained in no small part also by many rank and file members that while they reported that Trump was going to be a disaster, they now also do the three monkey act… but with their circle of friends and family… Or, they like what they see, and consequences be damned now. Sure, I can see how hard and sad is the prospect of being voted out of the conservative island in Trumpland, but something better than just voting in rubber stamps for Trump is needed. Voting in more Democratic candidates will make more of the so called Republican leaders to demand better from the Mango Mussolini. But, it is at the very local levels where better conservatives should constantly tell other conservatives to demand better \*, not just at the SDMB. - Not just better leaders, but better sources of information. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/740 "2018-10-12T15:05:01Z")
I agree. It’s definitely not comfortable, but neither were your questions to me. It’s worth doing because it’s not comfortable. Moving out of one’s comfort zone is how we grow and learn and test our ideas. Do you think that what they are saying is right? Or, do you find it objectionable? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=38)