# Better Conservatives? Where?! (A response to Coffeecat) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208 "2018-09-30T08:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/741 "2018-10-12T15:14:09Z")
Gigo: I am simply suggesting that you stop focusing on what is wrong with the opposition, and apply as honest and critical eye as you can to yourself and those on your side. Really do your very best to beat yourself and your team up. Each time I say this to in a different way, you respond by telling me how awful I am and how awful Trump and the Republicans are. Tell me how terrible you are. Tell me about all the terrible things wrong with Dems/libs. Or, at least tell yourself. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/742 "2018-10-12T15:14:27Z")
It’s odd to me that someone who relies on the sexual goodwill of women for “quality ejaculations” is inclined to deride and degrade women for having sex. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/743 "2018-10-12T15:34:44Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Gigo: > > I am simply suggesting that you stop focusing on what is wrong with the opposition, and apply as honest and critical eye as you can to yourself and those on your side. Really do your very best to beat yourself and your team up. Like when we did drive Al Franklin out of congress? Done already. But I will reply with the point made by Conservative Republican Scientist Barry Bickmore when he noted many conservatives attacking Al Gore: > **[“Why Don’t You Bash Al Gore?”](https://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/why-dont-you-bash-al-gore/)** > > Since I took the plunge and started publicly criticizing certain climate change contrarians, notably certain Utah politicians and Christopher Monckton, people on the other side of the fence have of… > [@](#): > > In the cases where Gore presented “worst-case scenarios” instead of depicting the full range of risk, try to look at it from the perspective of the scientists involved. The vast majority of scientists are saying, “Human-induced climate change is very likely to be a very big problem, and somewhat likely to be a very, very big problem.” Are they supposed to get all worked up when a popularizer like Gore goes around saying it will be a very, very big problem? The reaction of most scientists has been exactly what it should be. “Well, maybe he overstated his case somewhat, but he got the gist right.” > > Now, contrast this with someone like Christopher Monckton, who goes about proclaiming that climate change is a “non-problem,” and to support his case he completely misrepresents the scientific literature he cites. Whom do you think scientists are going to want to spend their time criticizing? > > And no, I didn’t vote for Gore. Now substitute, and very appropriately, Trump and almost all Republicans with Monckton. One needs to prioritize his/her efforts against what is causing the most harm. > [@Scylla](#): > > Each time I say this to in a different way, you respond by telling me how awful I am and how awful Trump and the Republicans are. Because they are, that some nitwit CNN contributor on a tweet overstates their case is like a tempest in a teapot compared to the hurricane of lies, prejudice and hate coming from the current administration and Republican supporters. > [@Scylla](#): > > Tell me how terrible you are. Tell me about all the terrible things wrong with Dems/libs. > > Or, at least tell yourself. Perhaps they have not learned to fight dirty all the time. In any case I go for the better conservative advice (paraphrased): Trump and Republicans go about proclaiming that climate change or other important issues are “non-problems,” and to support their case they completely misrepresent the scientific literature or studies they cite. Whom do you think Dems/libs are going to want to spend their time criticizing? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/744 "2018-10-12T15:39:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For the first three, I’m not comfortable judging or critiquing black people on what language is appropriate or not when they discuss black people they disagree with. No opinion on the last one. That’s cowardly and undermines your argument. I’ll tell you what I think. I think they are racist and not because of the particular words they used but by the sentiments they expressed. The implication that a black man is mentally ill or is an illiterate negro because he stepped off the Democratic plantation is very offensive. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/745 "2018-10-12T15:47:24Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’m trying to be a little careful in my statements (“Everyone hates you, nobody would miss you if you left” sounds a little bit too much like suicide fuel for me to be comfortable posting it), but god damn, is there _anyone_ here who would care if they never had to read another **octopus** post? I’m sure in real life you have tons of people who care about you, but here, is there anyone here who has seen a good side of you? > > It’s like that for basically every conservative here. > > - **Scumpup** and **doorhinge** are basically just obnoxious trolls > - **Bricker** took the Trump Train completely off the deep end and has since made it clear that he’s mostly just interested in gloating about how well the republicans are ending democracy > - **Shodan** typically offers the dumbest post in any given thread, and we can be thankful for his service as the resident douchebag > - **WillFarnaby** is one gay frog rant away from being institutionalized > - **HurricaneDitka** is probably the one I can say some of the nicest things about, in that he’s merely obnoxious instead of outright noxious > - **UltraVires** is like Shodan except a little smarter, if only barely; a noxious, misogynistic douchebag whose every post in the Kavanaugh thread made me think that anyone hiring a lawyer in WV would be better off not taking that risk and hiring a lawyer from another state instead > - **Urbanredneck** is just unapologetically dumb as shit and apparently incapable of reflection or self-correction when shown to be totally wrong (as he usually is) > - **Scylla** ’s got some downright lovely views about women and what it’s reasonable to call them when you disagree with them > - **Bone** is easily the best of the lot and he’s still a dangerously paranoid single-issue second-amendment voter, which, as far as labels go, belongs up there with “single-issue false rape accusation voter”. But I have had some positive interactions with him and while I think his positions are wrong I can at least respect that some thought went into it. > > And compared to other forums, I gotta say, you guys are great. > > No, really! I spent a while at ChristianForums before deciding that it just wasn’t for me. The conservatives there are worse. Dishonest, intellectually stunted, incapable of more than one-line responses, at times probably just straight-up bots, openly racist, openly misogynistic, and more. Discussions were constantly derailed by bullshit whataboutisms, insane conspiracy theories, or ridiculous lies, and talking about something based on a source that wasn’t Fox News or further to the right was basically impossible. > > So congrats on not being completely fucking awful. Just mostly awful. And you are mostly awful. I’d be shocked if there was a poster here who would miss you if you left. Well thanks for the response. But I do think that a lot of people’s perceptions are shaped by deliberate distortions and outright hostility from some of the more unhinged posters dwelling in the pit. This place can be exceedingly monolithic in what is approved thought but if the acceptable tone changed more productive dialogue could take place. Maybe. Anyways, what’s the point of getting upset over a difference in politics? I have Bernie Bros in my own family and it doesn’t bother me. If my kids vote differently than me I’m not going to be upset. If my wife votes differently than me I’m not upset. I’d probably change my vote to match here. In real life, politics is important but not more important than everything. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/746 "2018-10-12T15:48:37Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s cowardly and undermines your argument. I’ll tell you what I think. I think they are racist and not because of the particular words they used but by the sentiments they expressed. The implication that a black man is mentally ill or is an illiterate negro because he stepped off the Democratic plantation is very offensive. It has to be pointed out that most of the ones that pointed at those implications where also black people. What you are doing is kinda like the Trumpian way of undermining the people that would have more of a reason to criticize someone in their group. In any case, I do not think that all the ones criticizing the CNN contributors are just conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/747 "2018-10-12T15:56:28Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’m trying to be a little careful in my statements (“Everyone hates you, nobody would miss you if you left” sounds a little bit too much like suicide fuel for me to be comfortable posting it), but god damn, is there _anyone_ here who would care if they never had to read another **octopus** post? I’m sure in real life you have tons of people who care about you, but here, is there anyone here who has seen a good side of you? > > It’s like that for basically every conservative here. > > - **Scumpup** and **doorhinge** are basically just obnoxious trolls > - **Bricker** took the Trump Train completely off the deep end and has since made it clear that he’s mostly just interested in gloating about how well the republicans are ending democracy > - **Shodan** typically offers the dumbest post in any given thread, and we can be thankful for his service as the resident douchebag > - **WillFarnaby** is one gay frog rant away from being institutionalized > - **HurricaneDitka** is probably the one I can say some of the nicest things about, in that he’s merely obnoxious instead of outright noxious > - **UltraVires** is like Shodan except a little smarter, if only barely; a noxious, misogynistic douchebag whose every post in the Kavanaugh thread made me think that anyone hiring a lawyer in WV would be better off not taking that risk and hiring a lawyer from another state instead > - **Urbanredneck** is just unapologetically dumb as shit and apparently incapable of reflection or self-correction when shown to be totally wrong (as he usually is) > - **Scylla** ’s got some downright lovely views about women and what it’s reasonable to call them when you disagree with them > - **Bone** is easily the best of the lot and he’s still a dangerously paranoid single-issue second-amendment voter, which, as far as labels go, belongs up there with “single-issue false rape accusation voter”. But I have had some positive interactions with him and while I think his positions are wrong I can at least respect that some thought went into it. > > And compared to other forums, I gotta say, you guys are great. > > No, really! I spent a while at ChristianForums before deciding that it just wasn’t for me. The conservatives there are worse. Dishonest, intellectually stunted, incapable of more than one-line responses, at times probably just straight-up bots, openly racist, openly misogynistic, and more. Discussions were constantly derailed by bullshit whataboutisms, insane conspiracy theories, or ridiculous lies, and talking about something based on a source that wasn’t Fox News or further to the right was basically impossible. > > So congrats on not being completely fucking awful. Just mostly awful. And you are mostly awful. I’d be shocked if there was a poster here who would miss you if you left. Are those really all the posters considered conservative left on the board? ☹ Does anyone have any additional to add? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/748 "2018-10-12T15:57:03Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It has to be pointed out that most of the ones that pointed at those implications where also black people. What you are doing is kinda like the Trumpian way of undermining the people that would have more of a reason to criticize someone in their group. In any case, I do not think that all the ones criticizing the CNN contributors are just conservatives. I was commenting on iiandyiiii’s cowardly and ultimately bigoted, with noble intent perhaps, refusal to hold black people to a standard he holds others. As I have said in the so-called misogyny threads different types of bigotry or stereotyping is not the solution to fixing a particular form of bigotry. Treating individuals as such is the solution. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/749 "2018-10-12T15:58:45Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I agree. It’s definitely not comfortable, but neither were your questions to me. It’s worth doing because it’s not comfortable. > > Moving out of one’s comfort zone is how we grow and learn and test our ideas. > > Do you think that what they are saying is right? Or, do you find it objectionable? Okay, I’ll rephrase – I think it would be inappropriate for me to judge/critique what language is appropriate for a black person to use when criticizing another black person. I have neither the life nor cultural experience (i.e. I am not fluent in AAVE, among many other things) to make such a judgment. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/750 "2018-10-12T16:02:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I was commenting on iiandyiiii’s cowardly and ultimately bigoted, with noble intent perhaps, refusal to hold black people to a standard he holds others. As I have said in the so-called misogyny threads different types of bigotry or stereotyping is not the solution to fixing a particular form of bigotry. Treating individuals as such is the solution. This has nothing to do with what I wrote. I’m not commenting on something that I don’t feel qualified to comment on; simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/751 "2018-10-12T16:03:33Z")
nm; duplicate ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/752 "2018-10-12T16:04:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This has nothing to do with what I wrote. I’m not commenting on something that I don’t feel qualified to comment on; simple as that. Fine. Ignore the language. Comment on the message. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/753 "2018-10-12T16:06:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Fine. Ignore the language. Comment on the message. The message, as I took it, from those segments (not just a single quote), is “Kanye is saying many extremely foolish things, as well as giving political cover to a white supremacist enabler, and the President is trying to utilize this for political advantage, which is wrong” – I don’t have any problem with that message. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/754 "2018-10-12T16:44:46Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > On the one side we have people that just love them some voter fraud. On the other side baby killers, who hate due process and men and think an accusation is all that is needed to ruin someone’s life. I would say that the republicans are the ones in favor of voter fraud, as proof we can look at the NC election laws that restricted voting in all of the ways primarily used by minorities, but not the one that is both primarily used by whites AND has evidence of singificant voter fraud. It’s also blatantly obvious that the ‘voter fraud’ smokescreen is just a smokescreen, since none of it’s supporters actually come up with evidence that it exists, and target their allegedly anti-fraud measures in ways that specifically hinder minorities and poor people more than whites and rich people. The only side in favor of killing babies is the one attempting to reduce access to healthcare, cut education funding, and reduce programs that help feed children. Fetuses aren’t babies, and pretending that you believe they are is just rhetoric. So, yours. I would also say that the side who hates due process is the side who refused to conduct a real investigation into the allegations of rape and refused to allow questioning or debate. So again, yours. > [@](#): > > You see how the game you are playing is played by the people you are arguing against, and then you see that you are doing the same thing It’s not a game. The assault on voting rights is real and obvious, and ‘principled’ conservatives like you who pretend that it isn’t happening deserve the oppobrium you get. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/755 "2018-10-12T16:46:26Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Well thanks for the response. But I do think that a lot of people’s perceptions are shaped by deliberate distortions and outright hostility from some of the more unhinged posters dwelling in the pit. This place can be exceedingly monolithic in what is approved thought but if the acceptable tone changed more productive dialogue could take place. Maybe. > > Anyways, what’s the point of getting upset over a difference in politics? I have Bernie Bros in my own family and it doesn’t bother me. If my kids vote differently than me I’m not going to be upset. If my wife votes differently than me I’m not upset. I’d probably change my vote to match here. In real life, politics is important but not more important than everything. We aren’t disagreeing over politics. We are disagreeing over morality. And often, we are disagreeing over basic facts. I’m glad that you are insulated from the consequences of these decisions but for many people I know, the answers to these questions could be a matter of life and death. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/756 "2018-10-12T16:54:20Z")
@ **Scylla** — You seem more-or-less OK to me. I’ve no problem with “conservatives.” I _do_ have a problem with Republicans and Trump supporters. Let me give you a pop quiz. 🙂 1. **Name five or ten of the most despicable things that Trump or top Republicans have done lately.** Tell us what you think about Trump’s cabinet, about his amity for Putin. Tell us what you think of “starving the beast” with taxcuts for the rich. 2. Then try to identify things that top Democrats have done that rise to the same level of evil. (Keep in mind that advocating taxpayer funding of college education, whether stupid or not, is not “despicable.”) The political divide is not between l"leftist" and “rightist” economics. It is between those with sincere humanitarian ideals and those whose agenda revolves around greed, crime and hypocrisy. @ **octopus** — you take the quiz too, please. I’m not sure you’re beyond salvation. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/757 "2018-10-12T17:34:38Z")
> [@JB99](#): > > We aren’t disagreeing over politics. We are disagreeing over morality. And often, we are disagreeing over basic facts. > > I’m glad that you are insulated from the consequences of these decisions but for many people I know, the answers to these questions could be a matter of life and death. Morality? Rarely, if ever, do I see moral axioms and positions logically derived from them posted and debated. What is normally posted are selfish positions or positions intended to demonstrate political solidarity with the intent of obtaining power. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/758 "2018-10-12T17:45:26Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Morality? Rarely, if ever, do I see moral axioms and positions logically derived from them posted and debated. What is normally posted are selfish positions or positions intended to demonstrate political solidarity with the intent of obtaining power. You bet that many would like to see a government with the power to tell powerful corporations, politicians or groups that make climate change worse, that disenfranchise mostly the poor and minorities, that bankrupt America with insane and irrational health care, to take a hike. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/759 "2018-10-12T18:29:36Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > @ **Scylla** — You seem more-or-less OK to me. I’ve no problem with “conservatives.” I _do_ have a problem with Republicans and Trump supporters. > > Let me give you a pop quiz. 🙂 > > 1. **Name five or ten of the most despicable things that Trump or top Republicans have done lately.** Tell us what you think about Trump’s cabinet, about his amity for Putin. Tell us what you think of “starving the beast” with taxcuts for the rich. > 2. Then try to identify things that top Democrats have done that rise to the same level of evil. (Keep in mind that advocating taxpayer funding of college education, whether stupid or not, is not “despicable.”) > > The political divide is not between l"leftist" and “rightist” economics. It is between those with sincere humanitarian ideals and those whose agenda revolves around greed, crime and hypocrisy. > > @ **octopus** — you take the quiz too, please. I’m not sure you’re beyond salvation. > [@septimus](#): > > @ **Scylla** — You seem more-or-less OK to me. I’ve no problem with “conservatives.” I _do_ have a problem with Republicans and Trump supporters. > > Let me give you a pop quiz. 🙂 > > 1. **Name five or ten of the most despicable things that Trump or top Republicans have done lately.** Tell us what you think about Trump’s cabinet, about his amity for Putin. Tell us what you think of “starving the beast” with taxcuts for the rich. > 2. Then try to identify things that top Democrats have done that rise to the same level of evil. (Keep in mind that advocating taxpayer funding of college education, whether stupid or not, is not “despicable.”) > > The political divide is not between l"leftist" and “rightist” economics. It is between those with sincere humanitarian ideals and those whose agenda revolves around greed, crime and hypocrisy. > > @ **octopus** — you take the quiz too, please. I’m not sure you’re beyond salvation. Sure, why not. First a preamble of sorts. What motivates me more than anything are some of the ideas from the age of enlightenment and the era of classical liberalism. The tools used to ensure individual freedom such as the concept that government derives its legitimacy and power from sovereignty ceded by individuals, the concept of natural rights, the implementation of checks and balances in a government, checks and balances between the government and other powerful institutions, etc are something I consider very important. Too much concentrated power or the concept that the so-called government is the source of all legitimate power I find very dangerous. The most vile acts (in scale) in history have occurred in the 20th century and were done by states. So, based on history and knowledge of the nature of man, I don’t want the state to have too much power. When I take the stance that a court shouldn’t force a baker to make a specific type of cake with a custom message it’s not out of homophobia. It’s from the principle that I don’t believe the state should have the power to compel the publication of a particular sentiment. Even if I agree with the sentiment. Now to answer your questions. The courts are the number 1 prize, at the moment, and that is truly unfortunate. 1. Even though the courts are the prize failing to even vote on Garland is, in my opinion, the most problematic and troubling act the Republicans have recently done. 2. I am definitely not a fan of separating families because of immigration. 3. I think not taking a stronger and more consistent stance against bigoted factions is a problem. 4. Not moving forward with TPP. 5. Not working to properly constrain China. Trump’s cabinet? Haven’t given it any thought. Relations with Putin? I think we made a strategic error with Russia when the USSR collapsed. We should have not exploited their weakness to the extent we did. If you look at geopolitics through the eyes of Russia you’d realize that they are strategically vulnerable and face existential threats. If I were the one in power during the fall of the USSR I would have been very clear that the US was not trying to exploit that weakness. Therefore, I think it’s in the nature of the world today that a new cold war does not develop. I’m not sure what harm there is with better relations with the other former super power. The asymmetric warfare that Russia can engage in is going to potentially cost the west its liberalism. If I were Russia I’d be stoking factionalism and tribalism in order to divide and weaken my strategic competitors. Unfortunately, we don’t have the sense to see that cooperation is better than competition. Regarding Trump’s feelings? Man, I can’t get a read on Trump. So I have no idea what his motives are. Starving the beast? I’m not sure the beast is going to be corralled as long as bonds are selling and the dollar is the world currency. Democrats and their “evil”? Well, I am not going to categorize any of these policies as evil. I do think the state is engaged in evil through its employees I just don’t think that for the most part that the policy differences are motivated by evil. Perhaps, that makes me ignorant or naïve or even just plain stupid. Examples state evil would be many aspects of the criminal justice system, asset forfeiture laws, etc. So, there is definitely “evil” I just don’t think it’s correlated with party. I think the biggest problems I have with Democrats are the following: 1. Using the courts as a super powerful legislature. 2. Attacks on language as a mechanism to control thought strikes me as very Orwellian. 3. Economic counter productive support for minimum wage and large amounts of immigration. 4. The hopes that immigration will change the culture and demographics enough to cement a permanent coalition to ensure political power. The political divide to me is not economics and is not humanitarian vs selfishness. The political divide to me is the function of 100s of variables that each individual weighs based on their own biases and preferences and maps to an unfortunate two party outcome. I think that this complexity and the desire to reduce that complexity to one or two variables is what makes productive conversation difficult. There are too many assumptions and biases that a person can hold that influences their perspective of where another comes from. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/760 "2018-10-12T18:31:11Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You bet that many would like to see a government with the power to tell powerful corporations, politicians or groups that make climate change worse, that disenfranchise mostly the poor and minorities, that bankrupt America with insane and irrational health care, to take a hike. And how do you set up a system to ensure that only who you consider virtuous have power? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=39)