# Better Conservatives? Where?! (A response to Coffeecat) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208 "2018-09-30T08:43:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/761 "2018-10-12T18:57:36Z")
I think some of it is wrong, but post #759 was a very good and thoughtful post, **octopus**. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/762 "2018-10-12T19:48:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, I’ll rephrase – I think it would be inappropriate for me to judge/critique what language is appropriate for a black person to use when criticizing another black person. I have neither the life nor cultural experience (i.e. I am not fluent in AAVE, among many other things) to make such a judgment. It is your prerogative and I won’t pressure you to comment. I think the idea that somebody’s race give them culture and experience is a bogus assertion. The idea that you can’t comment on someone’s who is different is also bogus, because everybody’s is different, plus we have both imagination and empathy. I am Catholic. So is Fluke. You seem to have no problem commenting on my language. Are you Catholic? I was born in Bronx, NY., and Jersey. I’m half Irish and half Polish (stupid and stubborn,) is your culture close enough to mine that you dare judge me? Is a black guy from The Philly ghetto culturally the same as a black guy raised in Beverly Hills? Has The Fresh Prince taught you nothing? Do you really think that all those people are the same in any way because of their skin color? You do know that this makes absolutely zero logical sense, right? Assuming that their are differences between people of skin color that have nothing to do with skin color is literally the definition of racism, right? It may be culturally approved, PC racism but iit’s Still racism. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/763 "2018-10-12T19:53:16Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > @ **Scylla** — You seem more-or-less OK to me. I’ve no problem with “conservatives.” I _do_ have a problem with Republicans and Trump supporters. > > Let me give you a pop quiz. 🙂 > > 1. **Name five or ten of the most despicable things that Trump or top Republicans have done lately.** Tell us what you think about Trump’s cabinet, about his amity for Putin. Tell us what you think of “starving the beast” with taxcuts for the rich. > 2. Then try to identify things that top Democrats have done that rise to the same level of evil. (Keep in mind that advocating taxpayer funding of college education, whether stupid or not, is not “despicable.”) > > The political divide is not between l"leftist" and “rightist” economics. It is between those with sincere humanitarian ideals and those whose agenda revolves around greed, crime and hypocrisy. > > @ **octopus** — you take the quiz too, please. I’m not sure you’re beyond salvation. I will do this, but it might take me a while. Please don’t think i’ve Ignored it. I would be curious to see you reverse your own Quiz. I have been trying to get Dems to turn their critical eye to their own party since I came into this thread. So far no takers. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/764 "2018-10-12T19:56:02Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > It is your prerogative and I won’t pressure you to comment. > > I think the idea that somebody’s race give them culture and experience is a bogus assertion. The idea that you can’t comment on someone’s who is different is also bogus, because everybody’s is different, plus we have both imagination and empathy. > > I am Catholic. So is Fluke. You seem to have no problem commenting on my language. Are you Catholic? > > I was born in Bronx, NY., and Jersey. I’m half Irish and half Polish (stupid and stubborn,) is your culture close enough to mine that you dare judge me? > > Is a black guy from The Philly ghetto culturally the same as a black guy raised in Beverly Hills? > > Has The Fresh Prince taught you nothing? > > Do you really think that all those people are the same in any way because of their skin color? > > You do know that this makes absolutely zero logical sense, right? > > Assuming that their are differences between people of skin color that have nothing to do with skin color is literally the definition of racism, right? > > It may be culturally approved, PC racism but iit’s Still racism. That’s not what I’m saying. I don’t comment on things I don’t think I have sufficient knowledge of. I won’t comment on how to perform surgery. I won’t comment on the best rifle for hunting elk. And I won’t comment on how black people should criticize other black people. I lack the knowledge, and thus I would rather stay silent than speak in ignorance. It’s about my assessment of my own knowledge. I’ll add one thing that’s important to note that I’m sure you’ll disagree with - being black in America gives one experience in being black in America. That’s experience that I do not have. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/765 "2018-10-12T20:05:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And how do you set up a system to ensure that only who you consider virtuous have power? Founding fathers planned it, not very effective until the 20th century, nowadays powerful interests are figuring out how to prevent progress, it depends now on not just the usual progressives, but on better conservatives as well, too bad that many of those have settled a lot to play the three monkey act now. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/766 "2018-10-12T20:17:20Z")
Many times before I have commented on how much political parties in America have changed in the past centuries; currently, most of the idiot balls are being handled by the Republicans in power. When that is the case, one should vote for the other team. That also goes for the Better Conservatives too. > **[Conservative Columnist: 'I Want Democrats To Take Over'](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/max-boot-democrat-midterm-takeover_n_5b3d7b35e4b09e4a8b29d1cb)** > > "The Republican Party must be destroyed before it can be rebuilt." > [@](#): > > Conservative columnist Max Boot, a frequent critic of President Donald Trump, says he’s now rooting for a Democratic takeover of both houses of Congress in November’s midterm elections. > > … > > ``` > “The current GOP still has a few resemblances to the party of old — it still cuts taxes and supports conservative judges. **But a vote for the GOP in November is also a vote for egregious obstruction of justice, rampant conflicts of interest, the demonization of minorities, the debasement of political discourse, the alienation of America’s allies, the end of free trade and the appeasement of dictators.** > > ``` > > “That is why I join [George] Will and other principled conservatives, both current and former Republicans, in rooting for a Democratic takeover of both houses in November,” ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/767 "2018-10-12T20:34:19Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’m trying to be a little careful in my statements (“Everyone hates you, nobody would miss you if you left” sounds a little bit too much like suicide fuel for me to be comfortable posting it), but god damn, is there _anyone_ here who would care if they never had to read another **octopus** post? I’m sure in real life you have tons of people who care about you, but here, is there anyone here who has seen a good side of you? > > It’s like that for basically every conservative here. > > - **Scumpup** and **doorhinge** are basically just obnoxious trolls > - **Bricker** took the Trump Train completely off the deep end and has since made it clear that he’s mostly just interested in gloating about how well the republicans are ending democracy > - **Shodan** typically offers the dumbest post in any given thread, and we can be thankful for his service as the resident douchebag > - **WillFarnaby** is one gay frog rant away from being institutionalized > - **HurricaneDitka** is probably the one I can say some of the nicest things about, in that he’s merely obnoxious instead of outright noxious > - **UltraVires** is like Shodan except a little smarter, if only barely; a noxious, misogynistic douchebag whose every post in the Kavanaugh thread made me think that anyone hiring a lawyer in WV would be better off not taking that risk and hiring a lawyer from another state instead > - **Urbanredneck** is just unapologetically dumb as shit and apparently incapable of reflection or self-correction when shown to be totally wrong (as he usually is) > - **Scylla** ’s got some downright lovely views about women and what it’s reasonable to call them when you disagree with them > - **Bone** is easily the best of the lot and he’s still a dangerously paranoid single-issue second-amendment voter, which, as far as labels go, belongs up there with “single-issue false rape accusation voter”. But I have had some positive interactions with him and while I think his positions are wrong I can at least respect that some thought went into it. > > And compared to other forums, I gotta say, you guys are great. > > No, really! I spent a while at ChristianForums before deciding that it just wasn’t for me. The conservatives there are worse. Dishonest, intellectually stunted, incapable of more than one-line responses, at times probably just straight-up bots, openly racist, openly misogynistic, and more. Discussions were constantly derailed by bullshit whataboutisms, insane conspiracy theories, or ridiculous lies, and talking about something based on a source that wasn’t Fox News or further to the right was basically impossible. > > So congrats on not being completely fucking awful. Just mostly awful. And you are mostly awful. I’d be shocked if there was a poster here who would miss you if you left. I just left the Politics, Religion & Social Issues forum on MacRumors for good. The conservatives there make me appreciate **Shodan** , \*\*Bricker \*\*and **WillFarnaby**. Your description of “dishonest, intelletually stunted, etc. etc.” fits some of these a-holes to a T. And when you call them out on it in an even slightly mean way, they report you to the mods, who have the spine of wet linguini. After the third ban in six months, I had had enough. I wrote a scathing riposte to the mod in the reply of my ban notice saying I was gone for good. That said, a lot of the conservatives on this board could use a high colonic. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/768 "2018-10-12T20:56:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s not what I’m saying. I don’t comment on things I don’t think I have sufficient knowledge of. I won’t comment on how to perform surgery. I won’t comment on the best rifle for hunting elk. And I won’t comment on how black people should criticize other black people. > > I lack the knowledge, and thus I would rather stay silent than speak in ignorance. It’s about my assessment of my own knowledge. > > I’ll add one thing that’s important to note that I’m sure you’ll disagree with - being black in America gives one experience in being black in America. That’s experience that I do not have. What possible experience can the color of your skin and the color of you skin alone give someone that you can’t imagine? Biff, the rich surfer dude born and raised in Malibu beach and Ted, the poor inner city kid raised in Philadelphia, May share the same skin, but their experience will be as different as it is possible to be in this country. But, I suppose it is ok for Biff to comment on Ted. However, if Ted has a neighbor, Tim who lives in the same tenement, and they are friends, and have everything in common except skin color, than Tim can’t comment about Ted, but Biff can? Again, what makes you think you have enough commonality with me, that it is ok for you to comment on how I criticize a fellow Catholic? Are you from The Bronx? Jersey? Your desire to only speak about things of which you have experience did not seem to come in play there. * * * It seems to me that your stance here, as we drill down into it makes little sense. There is literally no experential difference conveyed by what color one’s skin happens to be. Conveying or not conveying societal status based on skin color is again racism. There is a lot of complexity here, morality, mores, free speech, race relations. Etc etc. Say what you think. Offend somebody. Make them think. Get them to make you think. You talked earlier about a melting pot philosophy. If you really believe that, than you should comment. Go appropriate some culture and get appropriated. Do you see that your stance is inherently divisive? You are separating people into groups that has nothing to do with their actual identity, based on skin color, and then saying that these prople can’t Interact. If you should not comment on their political behavior based on skin color, than the converse is that they don’t get to comment on your political behavior based on skin color. Is this Apatheid? Separate but equal. I think you have not thought this through, and are embracing a very dangerous philosophy here. Me? I’d rather risk saying something stupid and offensive once in a while. This attitude **truly** bothers me. You are really smart. Do any parts of this make any sense to you? Do you at least see what I am saying? You don’t have to agree, but do you see it? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/769 "2018-10-12T21:06:29Z")
Not **iiandyiiii** , but it is clear to me that you are looking at the mote in the eye of others. The issue AFAICS is that those tweets deserve some criticism, like many do in tweeter, unfortunately Trump and others do have a more powerful bully pulpit. Guess who do you think Dems/libs are going to want to spend their time criticizing? > **[Base President: Trump Mocks, and Lies About, Christine Blasey Ford’s Testimony](https://theintercept.com/2018/10/03/base-president-trump-mocks-lies-christine-blasey-fords-testimony/)** > > Donald Trump’s attack on Christine Blasey Ford proves that he cares to serve only the minority of Americans who voted for him. > **[News media finally calls out Trump on his lies. It took children in cages to...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/nation-now/2018/06/19/family-separations-border-news-media-trump-lying-column/713112002/)** > > Outrage over family separations at the border is growing. The media's slow evolution toward straight talk won't solve every problem, but it's a start. > **[Let's drop the euphemisms: Donald Trump is a racist president | Richard Wolffe](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/13/donald-trump-immigration-racism-uk-visit)** > > Trump is a walking contradiction – but his nativism is consistent. On his UK tour, he has threatened the safety of migrants worldwide ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/770 "2018-10-12T21:12:02Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not **iiandyiiii** , but it is clear to me that you are looking at the mote in the eye of others. > > The issue AFAICS is that those tweets deserve some criticism, like many do in tweeter, unfortunately Trump and others do have a more powerful bully pulpit. Guess who do you think Dems/libs are going to want to spend their time criticizing? > > [Trump Mocks, and Lies About, Christine Blasey Ford Testimony](https://theintercept.com/2018/10/03/base-president-trump-mocks-lies-christine-blasey-fords-testimony/) > > [Family separations: Why news media are finally saying Trump is lying](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/nation-now/2018/06/19/family-separations-border-news-media-trump-lying-column/713112002/) > > [Let's drop the euphemisms: Donald Trump is a racist president | Richard Wolffe | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/13/donald-trump-immigration-racism-uk-visit) It’s not a mote to perpetuate the concept that linguistics or politics are intrinsic to skin color. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/771 "2018-10-12T21:13:26Z")
Apparently Kanye said “Trump was on his hero’s journey” which is Pretty Joseph Campbell. So maybe he does read. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/772 "2018-10-12T21:16:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s not a mote to perpetuate the concept that linguistics or politics are intrinsic to skin color. I know and I already say that those CNN contributors are not doing it right; So, Can you do better? Criticizing more the ones that deserve it the most? [https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/politics/judge-curiel-trump-border-wall/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/politics/judge-curiel-trump-border-wall/index.html) > [@](#): > > The strange collective reality show the country continues to live in during the Trump administration took an unexpected and odd turn Tuesday. > The Indiana-born federal judge who President Donald Trump once said could not be impartial because he was “Mexican” cleared a major obstacle standing in the way of Trump’s long-promised border wall with Mexico. Read more about his 100-page order Tuesday that the current administration, like administrations before it, can waive environmental laws. > The judge, Gonzalo Curiel, first entered the Trump political story long before the President came to the White House, back when Curiel got a class-action lawsuit concerning students who said they had been defrauded by Trump University. The case was ultimately settled after Trump won the White House. > Trump said Curiel was not going to be impartial because he was “Mexican.” Curiel works in the Southern District of California but was born in Indiana. > > Trump’s attacks on Curiel weren’t a one-off thing, either. They were repeated and sustained and mean. “I have a judge who is a hater of Donald Trump, a hater. He’s a hater,” Trump said in San Diego in May of 2016, kicking off the controversy. > Trump’s comments led to accusations of racism, including from Republicans. It was a very big deal. And he wouldn’t back down. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/773 "2018-10-12T21:17:01Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > What possible experience can the color of your skin and the color of you skin alone give someone that you can’t imagine? > > Biff, the rich surfer dude born and raised in Malibu beach and Ted, the poor inner city kid raised in Philadelphia, May share the same skin, but their experience will be as different as it is possible to be in this country. But, I suppose it is ok for Biff to comment on Ted. However, if Ted has a neighbor, Tim who lives in the same tenement, and they are friends, and have everything in common except skin color, than Tim can’t comment about Ted, but Biff can? I grew up much closer to my sister than “in the same tenement”. I grew up in literally the same house, with the same parents, went to the same schools… I’ve literally known her all my life. But I didn’t realize how different her experience of the world was than mine until I talked about #metoo with her. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/774 "2018-10-12T21:17:25Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > What possible experience can the color of your skin and the color of you skin alone give someone that you can’t imagine? > > Biff, the rich surfer dude born and raised in Malibu beach and Ted, the poor inner city kid raised in Philadelphia, May share the same skin, but their experience will be as different as it is possible to be in this country. But, I suppose it is ok for Biff to comment on Ted. However, if Ted has a neighbor, Tim who lives in the same tenement, and they are friends, and have everything in common except skin color, than Tim can’t comment about Ted, but Biff can? > > Again, what makes you think you have enough commonality with me, that it is ok for you to comment on how I criticize a fellow Catholic? > > Are you from The Bronx? Jersey? > > Your desire to only speak about things of which you have experience did not seem to come in play there. > > * * * > > It seems to me that your stance here, as we drill down into it makes little sense. There is literally no experential difference conveyed by what color one’s skin happens to be. Conveying or not conveying societal status based on skin color is again racism. > > There is a lot of complexity here, morality, mores, free speech, race relations. Etc etc. > > Say what you think. Offend somebody. Make them think. Get them to make you think. > > You talked earlier about a melting pot philosophy. If you really believe that, than you should comment. Go appropriate some culture and get appropriated. > > Do you see that your stance is inherently divisive? You are separating people into groups that has nothing to do with their actual identity, based on skin color, and then saying that these prople can’t Interact. > > If you should not comment on their political behavior based on skin color, than the converse is that they don’t get to comment on your political behavior based on skin color. Is this Apatheid? Separate but equal. > > I think you have not thought this through, and are embracing a very dangerous philosophy here. > > Me? I’d rather risk saying something stupid and offensive once in a while. > > This attitude **truly** bothers me. > > You are really smart. Do any parts of this make any sense to you? Do you at least see what I am saying? You don’t have to agree, but do you see it? This really isn’t what I’m saying. It’s very specific, and I should have been more specific before. In my understanding based on the entire context of those comments, those black commentators were criticizing Kanye specifically for how he’s using his “blackness”. Not his music, or even just his political statements – things I would feel fine about commenting on. But about “blackness”? That’s very different. A very specific thing – specific to the African American experience. Your examples aren’t the same at all. If you criticized a fellow Catholic specifically for their “Catholicness” – I wouldn’t comment, since I don’t really know enough about “Catholicness” to offer anything substantive. So this is a rare scenario. If Ben Carson criticizes Barack Obama (or vice versa) for a political stance, I’d feel fine offering my thoughts. But if one criticizes the other for how they’re using their blackness? No, I’ll stay out of that. Because I can’t offer anything but my own ignorance on that topic. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/775 "2018-10-12T21:24:07Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Apparently Kanye said “Trump was on his hero’s journey” which is Pretty Joseph Campbell. So maybe he does read. I have read Joseph Campbell and I have to say that Trump is the current antagonist; however, he is a part of the greater universe; so he is a part of the hero too. Kayne is then just embracing just a part of the whole. Not really fulfilling at the end when Trump does represent discord and chaos to get what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/776 "2018-10-12T21:27:40Z")
Kanye, in my opinion was not arguing his blackness. He was arguing his individuality. He was saying he doesn’t have to conform to what he is expected to be. Have you listened to what he said. Those commentators were disparaging him with racially charged language because they did not feel he should be expressing himself the way he was because of the color of his skin. If I had said “This is what happens when Negroes don’t read,” I am pretty sure that would be racist. The sentiment is the sentiment. Uncle Tom’s are historically blacks who are racist against other blacks or who are complicit in racism against blacks. That is what they are saying he was. That is a hell of a slur. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/777 "2018-10-12T21:28:50Z")
Kanye making my arguments for me is a scary thing. Live by the Kanye, die by the Kanye. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/778 "2018-10-12T21:31:12Z")
Yeah, Kanye was not expressing his blackness. He doesn’t think he’s black. He thinks he’s God. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/779 "2018-10-12T21:39:02Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Yeah, Kanye was not expressing his blackness. He doesn’t think he’s black. He thinks he’s God. As many can tell you in GD, many of the ones that think that are seen as being in need of help indeed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208/780 "2018-10-12T21:40:53Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Kanye, in my opinion was not arguing his blackness. He was arguing his individuality. He was saying he doesn’t have to conform to what he is expected to be. Have you listened to what he said. > > Those commentators were disparaging him with racially charged language because they did not feel he should be expressing himself the way he was because of the color of his skin. > > If I had said “This is what happens when Negroes don’t read,” I am pretty sure that would be racist. > > The sentiment is the sentiment. Uncle Tom’s are historically blacks who are racist against other blacks or who are complicit in racism against blacks. > > That is what they are saying he was. > > That is a hell of a slur. I don’t recall any of the commentator’s calling him “Uncle Tom”. And yes, the same words can reasonably be interpreted and judged differently when coming from different people, in some circumstances, IMO. But none of this changes the fact that I’m not going to comment on something I feel that I have nothing substantive to offer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/better-conservatives-where-a-response-to-coffeecat/822208.md?page=40)